Dr. Rob Chartrand (00:01.998)
Well, hey, we are excited to have back on the podcast, the Church in the North podcast, Dan Goddard, who is the lead pastor of Royal Oak Victory Church in Calgary, Alberta. Dan, welcome back to Church in the North.
Dan Godard (00:14.946)
Thank you. It is great to be back with you.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (00:19.12)
And for our listeners who don't know, Dan, of course, was one of our co-hosts for our first season of Church in the North. it was such great times we had around the mic. Miss those days, Dan. Miss having you in Moose Shaw.
Dan Godard (00:33.966)
You know what? I miss those days too. It was a lot of fun and I really enjoyed being co-hosting with you with Church in the North. And actually this Sunday, first time ever, this Sunday, first time this has happened to me in Calgary, a guy in our church came up to me, his first, his first time in church and he said, I know you already. And I was like, oh really? And he goes, yeah, from Church in the North. I've listened to you, you know, on your podcast. I was like, hey, there it is.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (00:56.941)
Wow.
Was he a ministry leader or not?
Dan Godard (01:03.776)
No, it's yeah, just a follower of Jesus. Yeah, tuning in. Pretty cool.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (01:06.16)
Just tuning in. Wow, a small world. Amazing. And of course, you are the lead pastor of Victory Church in Moose Jaw. How many years were you there?
Dan Godard (01:16.91)
16 years in Moose Jaw. That's right, pasturing there.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (01:19.044)
Wow, faithful stewardship and the church is continuing to grow and to thrive and I think that's the testament of strong, faithful leadership.
Dan Godard (01:28.002)
Yeah, I'm really thankful to hear. keep hearing great, in fact, my wife was out there last weekend and she said great things about the church there. Sounds like it's doing great.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (01:36.452)
Yeah, and of course our good friend Jeff Dresser is continuing to work on staff there and at Briar Crest. yeah. So most of our listeners who are faithful listeners would know that you transitioned just over a year ago, a year and a bit to Royal Oak and want to talk to you a little bit about that. What was it like leaving Mooshjaw and moving to Calgary to take on that work?
Dan Godard (01:43.094)
Yes. Yeah.
Dan Godard (02:03.406)
Yeah, I mean, it's always challenging to move from one place to another. And like I said, I miss church in the North. I actually just miss, I miss a lot of it. I miss Briar Crest, honestly, the community there, you know, the getting the faculty hanging around with them and the students. There's just, it's a fun environment. A lot of learning people to talk to about your heart and what's going on in your world. The hockey team, I was a chaplain of a of fun with that. And, uh,
Dr. Rob Chartrand (02:27.63)
Yeah, you were the chaplain, yeah.
Dan Godard (02:33.218)
Yeah, so, you know, probably the, I mean, the thing we miss most is just the people, right? People from all the different environments at Briar Crest and certainly our church and the friends and leaders there and so on. But, but yeah, so it's, it's always a big shift moving, especially when you've been in a place 16 years. But for us, I guess, one of the things that made it easier is we are from Calgary. So we were kind of, in a sense, coming back home to the city I was born in, raised in. So, so that made it easier for sure.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (02:38.256)
Hmm. Yeah.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (02:44.719)
Yeah.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (03:01.038)
Yeah, yeah. You know, I always find it's a challenge having moved from one church to another over the years is you just, there's only so much of you to go around. And so you can't always invest in all those former relationships because you have to commit to investing in all these new relationships in the new church, right? So your dance card is full basically. And for our younger listeners who don't understand that metaphor, there used to be a time when you'd go to a dance, you had a little paper card and they were like,
10 slots on it for 10 dances and you had to get people to sign up your little dance card and say, I will dance with you in the second song. And that's how they used to do it. And so you only got 10 room for 10 names, right? And so you, got to commit. So anyway, I always, I always found that was always a challenge. Have you, have you found that?
Dan Godard (03:46.552)
For sure, relationships happen within contexts, right? There's things that keep you connecting with people, keep you seeing people, keep you around people. And so when you change contexts, a lot of those things that force those relationships to stay alive and stay strong and thriving are gone. A lot of the context in them. you can, I mean, you can make an effort for sure, and we do that, reach out to our old friends and connect with them and so on. But...
Dr. Rob Chartrand (04:07.748)
Yeah. Yeah.
Dan Godard (04:12.258)
But now I'm in a new context and I've got all kinds of new relationships to invest in and pour into. So you're absolutely right. That's part of the bittersweet reality of changing roles and changing contexts.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (04:23.854)
Yeah. So tell us a bit of the story. How did God orchestrate your transition from Moose Shot of Calgary?
Dan Godard (04:31.086)
All right, well, so like I said, I was born and raised in Calgary. I, and actually when I was 19 years old, so I started attending Victory Church, this church actually, the one I'm in now, when I was a teenager. And went to Bible college with the church and was hired on staff just very part-time when I was like 19 years old. So that, at the...
Dr. Rob Chartrand (04:44.804)
Wow. Okay.
Dan Godard (04:58.702)
now what is called Royal Oak Victory Church and served there for a lot of years. So during those years, the lead pastor and I became good friends, we talked lots, and it was always part of our discussion that he would say, you know, someday I might retire or I might move on or I might do this or I might do that. And you're one of the leaders we have our eyes on, you know, just like any pastor should do. Think about succession and think about the future. And so that was part of our discussions like like 25 years ago.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (05:03.76)
Hmm.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (05:20.484)
Yeah, that's right.
Dan Godard (05:28.546)
you can imagine. And we never thought we'd go anywhere. We thought we'd be in this church forever. But in Victory Churches, there's kind of a spirit that says, let's go, let's plant churches, let's do stuff. And we got asked a lot in our associate pastor days to head off and pastor another church somewhere. And we would always say, we'll pray about it.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (05:53.893)
Hmm.
Dan Godard (05:57.856)
never felt called anywhere. And then Moose Jaw called our Victory Church in Moose Jaw, reached out to us, our pastor there and said, would you consider coming here? And honestly, I'd never even been to Moose Jaw. Like I'd driven past it on the number one highway. Yeah, exactly. So, but we felt just led, like it was just one of those, the Holy Spirit is saying yes, you know? And so we, I mean, there was a lot of steps along the way to move to Moose Jaw, but we just kept feeling that was a God thing to
Dr. Rob Chartrand (06:09.968)
It's on the number one.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (06:20.026)
Hmm.
Dan Godard (06:27.704)
to leave the church we had served at for 13 years as pastors and to move to Muscha for the first time to become lead pastors. And we didn't know how long that would be for, of course, but we hoped longer, not shorter, because we just feel you can have more impact over a longer period of time if possible. So that was 16 years of that. And throughout that entire 16 years, I maintained a friendship with the lead pastor here in Calgary.
the Royal Oak Victory Church. His name is Dave Myers, great guy. So as we're friends, we're talking all the time about our churches and what's going on in life and traveling back and forth. It was always part of our discussion, like, I wonder if God will ever call us back. I wonder, you know, if, and it was just a matter of praying about when the right time would be. There's a lot of factors that had to line up. So probably the biggest one, honestly, was finding a
successor, know, someone to take the Moose Jaw Church, exactly. Part of the Victory Church's culture is that if the church is healthy and doing well and a pastor feels to leave, that they should help find a good replacement before they go, sort of like responsible to find someone or help find someone, I mean, along with the board and so on. So that was a big part of it, was making sure we had good people in place and making sure
Dr. Rob Chartrand (07:26.746)
For Moosejaw. Yeah.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (07:41.2)
Hmm.
Dan Godard (07:54.668)
Dave Myers, the person who was pastoring Royal Oak Victory, that he felt his season was right to move on to other things. So he had to make sure he had those things lined up. yeah, and there was personal factors too. We became empty nesters in Moose Jaw for a few years before we moved back to Calgary. So that was part of it. Our kids were moving all over the world and one of our kids actually lives in Calgary. So moving closer to him was...
was on the docket and then also my parents live in Calgary and their health was failing. And so there was some personal factors kind of calling us and saying, you know, maybe your season in Musja is coming to a close and time to move to Calgary. Yeah, so a lot of different factors come together.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (08:36.868)
Yeah. So you're saying it wasn't just an angel appeared before you and or a scroll dropped from heaven in your lap and you ate it and behold it was sweet and it said move the cow, Gary.
Dan Godard (08:49.27)
And there was, yeah. Well, exactly. There was practical things and there was spiritual things for sure. There's prayer involved and there's, but there's, and wise counsel around us. So all those factors came together nicely and we're thankful for that. You know, I think for a lot of people, it's more, more difficult discerning on that journey. but for us things, just one, one piece of the puzzle came together at a time until it became clear. then we.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (08:56.89)
Sure. Yeah.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (09:01.146)
Hmm.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (09:11.599)
Yeah.
Dan Godard (09:18.476)
knew the right thing to do.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (09:20.27)
Yeah, and I mean, the circumstances of your life are no less spiritual than all the other factors of God speaking and using wisdom, wise counsel and the word and the spirit, small, still small voice and all of these things together. Yeah.
Dan Godard (09:29.398)
Yeah, those are all parts of how God guides us.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (09:36.164)
Yeah. So you were there for how long like, like, at Roe Oak? Like there was a bit of an overlap in leadership, wasn't there?
Dan Godard (09:43.512)
Thank
Dan Godard (09:47.606)
Yeah, yeah, exactly. So when we left Moose Jaw, we spent two months actually on kind of a sabbatical. And then that was July and August. Then we came on staff at Royal Oak in September, but we came on staff as associate pastors for four months. And then, or maybe five months, I guess, then the end of January.
They released the church to us to be lead pastor.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (10:18.64)
And when you arrived, it was with the understanding that that transition would take place.
Dan Godard (10:24.214)
Yes, yeah, yeah. It's not like the whole congregation knew the whole plan, but certainly the staff and the board and the elders and yeah, yeah, we're part of
Dr. Rob Chartrand (10:28.773)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (10:32.164)
Yeah, congregations are pretty smart though. We got to give them more credit than everyone's putting the pieces together. Yeah, for sure. Hey, I'd love to hear about your call to ministry. I think we've talked about it in pieces back and forth in the past, but how did, tell us about that. Did you always think that you would become a pastor?
Dan Godard (10:36.372)
Exactly.
Dan Godard (10:58.008)
So, you I grew up in a wonderful, godly home, which certainly kind of helped that journey for me. And I'm very, very thankful for my parents and their example. And they weren't pastors, but they were just always involved in church leadership and doing various kinds of ministry. And my dad was in the oil industry, but he also preached. our church called them lay pastors, and we'd have lots of leaders who...
did roles like that and my dad was certainly one of those. And my mom was also very involved in various kinds of leadership. So that was part of it. And then my three older brothers who also just loved the Lord and served the Lord and one of them is a pastor today. So I think it was partly just in the DNA of our family to do ministry. And when I was 11 or 12 years old, I did have a sense that I might do missions. That was probably the one thing that kind of
Dr. Rob Chartrand (11:44.4)
Yeah.
Dan Godard (11:53.71)
But I didn't really follow the Lord in my teen years. And I wasn't really very committed to my faith at that time. But I had kind of a radical salvation experience at 15 years old with a group called Teen Missions out of Florida. it's actually a pretty big group, Teen Missions International. At that time, they were sending out 2,000 teenagers a year on missions. So it's a pretty huge deal.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (12:11.692)
Okay. Yeah.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (12:19.536)
Hmm.
Dan Godard (12:21.312)
And it was there that I really gave my heart to Christ, really encountered Jesus for real, came alive. And at Teen Missions, they do ask you at the end of it, during the debrief, at the end of the mission trip, do you feel called to full-time ministry? And it's like a challenge and like, stand on your feet and all of that. And I did respond in that and did feel like a prompting. you know, hopefully it wasn't just an emotional moment, you know.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (12:38.479)
Wow.
Dan Godard (12:50.456)
But I did feel that God was saying, you know, to serve him full time, whatever that meant or looked like. And honestly, at that time, I thought it would be in missions. And I always, right from that day, I thought I'll go be a missionary somewhere, even to the point where in my youth, I thought, wow, I'm gonna go die for Jesus somewhere. I'm gonna go be a martyr. just, I was just like this all in, like, let's go. And...
came back home after that mission strip and actually became like a street preacher in Calgary and did all kinds of street preaching. funny enough, Prairie Bible Institute used to send out a street preaching team and I used to join them as a teenager and do street preaching with PBI, yeah, and some of their team, you know, and also with the Mustard Seed in Calgary, which, you know, it's quite a large ministry now, but back then it was just a house.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (13:25.038)
Okay, wow.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (13:36.058)
Really? Wow.
Dan Godard (13:48.478)
and I would come and do street ministry and street preaching with them. so my life was just kind of oriented that way. At school, I would start Bible studies and start prayer meetings and various things. Yep, in high school. it wasn't always, you know, anyway, it was a fun season of life. Lots of things happened there. so it became, it felt natural to go to Bible college when I graduated from high school.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (14:02.072)
At high school. Okay.
Dan Godard (14:16.334)
Not knowing for sure. Again, thinking I would end up on the mission field. And quite honestly, I've never felt called to be a pastor. So here I am, 30 years in and a pastor. I've always felt called to be a missionary. That's always been what I felt. If you'd ask me, like, do you have a calling on your life? I was on missions. And then, you know, the first role I felt the Lord asked me to take was as a youth pastor.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (14:25.264)
Okay. Yeah.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (14:34.573)
interesting.
Dan Godard (14:41.952)
And I remember arguing with God about that and being like, I don't want to be a youth pastor. I'm called the missions. And I felt the Lord say, well, be a missionary right here, you know, at Bonass High School. That's your mission field. And then, you know, Northwest Calgary, that's your mission field. And then, and that's just been every step along the way. I've never felt like I could see more than a year in front of me of what God had. Just try to be faithful with what's in front of me. But I've always...
phrased it in my own heart and mind as missions. So even when we went to Moose Jaw, 16, 17 years ago now, we felt called to be missionaries in Moose Jaw. And we saw Moose Jaw as our mission field and sort of the lore there. And that's not to take anything away from those who head off to overseas missions. Or like my daughter right now is on the front lines, you know, in a unreached people group missions in Africa and Tanzania. So I love that.
kind of missions too. But that's how I've seen my ministry over the years and I've seen my calling is just to be a missionary. So now I'm a missionary back in my own hometown, Northwest Calgary. I feel called to reach this city for Christ.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (15:52.368)
Hmm. So, so if we think about the apest gifts, apostle, prophet, evangelist, shepherd, teacher, what would you say are your two that are probably most prominent for you in your leadership?
Dan Godard (15:58.861)
Hmm.
Dan Godard (16:04.942)
I think I've defined myself as like an evangelistic pastor, probably. This is how I see, at least how I'm working out those roles in my world.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (16:08.418)
Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, yeah, yeah, I can see that. And I think, you know, if we were to talk to those people in the apest field, they'll say that most pastor, pastors are shepherd teacher heavy, right? And so where do those other three offices or gifts, whichever way you interpret it, where do they find themselves in the local church, but
Obviously evangelist has a place. You can be an evangelist shepherd as a pastor.
Dan Godard (16:41.929)
For sure, yeah, yeah, and hopefully to stir up God's people to fulfill their own responsibility as ambassadors for Christ.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (16:49.808)
Yeah, to mission. Yeah, absolutely. And I think that's evident from the fruit of your work. I mean, if anyone knows that about Victory Church, because of where it's located and the work you guys have done over the years in reaching people far from God, that's certainly been a testament of your labors. Okay, so did you then go into training at
Dan Godard (16:58.659)
Hmm.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (17:13.276)
the Victory College? did that connection? what was your parents' denominational background? Was it brethren or was it?
Dan Godard (17:19.372)
Yeah, I actually grew up in a Mennonite church and it was just a solid evangelical church. My parents weren't Mennonite, so we weren't Mennonite by background. We were engrafted in to the, which is, know, Mennonites have a strong cultural heritage, right? So, and we didn't have that, but we embraced it. We embraced the full cultural heritage. But I would call my parents Billy Graham evangelicals. That's what I, so I grew up in just Bible,
Dr. Rob Chartrand (17:21.977)
Okay, man, I know.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (17:31.728)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (17:37.262)
Yeah.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (17:45.241)
Okay.
Dan Godard (17:49.102)
memory, know, love Jesus full on. That was my ethos growing up. you know, as far as Bible college goes, I actually was thinking of going to Prairie Bible College, it's close to Calgary here, and it had a missions emphasis, so it's like missions, you know. But I had gotten involved in this Victory Church as a teenager and...
Dr. Rob Chartrand (18:04.324)
Yeah.
Dan Godard (18:15.61)
There's a few things that really attracted me to Victory. There was a lot of passion and I was really passionate about my faith. So Victory has that just as part of its world. It's very, you know, intense, very kind of revival oriented, breakthrough oriented. then it was, it's, Victory has always been a soul winning type organization too. It's been sort of its heartbeat. So those things really attracted me. And so I'd been attending Victory Church and
Dr. Rob Chartrand (18:37.06)
Mm-hmm.
Dan Godard (18:46.637)
Just felt, you know, they talked about their leadership development stuff and so when it came time to decide where to go to Bible College, I just felt a kind of a prompting to choose that and off I went and that led the trajectory of my life. really affected things.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (18:59.44)
And you've been there ever since. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So let's talk a little bit about your church. What would you say gospel contextualization looks like in your new church compared to say your former church in Mushta? How has that changed? What's the same? What's different?
Dan Godard (19:22.914)
Yeah, well, I mean, we're in Western Canada, so, you know, we're not in a massive cultural shift. And yet, I'll tell you, man, when we moved to Moose Jaw from Calgary, like I was born and raised in Calgary. And I thought, how different could it be? And I've traveled lots, you know, and all this, so no big deal. But I'll tell you, living in a different place, you do experience different culture, you know, smaller town versus big city.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (19:28.282)
Cultural difference, yeah, sure.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (19:36.483)
Okay.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (19:48.517)
Mm-hmm.
Dan Godard (19:49.07)
Saskatchewan versus Alberta, you know, more of a farming, Saskatchewan is more of a farming community, Calgary more of an oil community, all kinds of little differences. yeah, so there is some, like I'm just trying to think what the cultural gospel contextualization would look like. I mean, I think one thing is in Moose Jaw, we had lots of different economic
Dan Godard (20:21.536)
variables in one church, you know, so one church had just all over the map, whereas in Calgary, our church is located way up in the suburbs, so that is less the reality. I mean, it still is, there's still gonna be diversity economically, but not nearly to the level that we had that in Moose Jaw, so.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (20:22.679)
Mm-hmm. Okay.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (20:33.743)
Yeah.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (20:39.994)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (20:44.24)
So would you say it's more like middle, upper middle class in the area you're in?
Dan Godard (20:48.802)
Yeah, compared to Moose Jaw, it is, yeah, for sure. So we have to call people, I would say in Northwest Calgary, we have to call people to mission towards under-resourced people more regularly, and then doing mission towards those who are more under-resourced is more, let's go out. So we take teams to the jails and we take teams to the feeding programs and housing programs and various things. Whereas in Moose Jaw,
Dr. Rob Chartrand (20:50.308)
Yeah. Yeah.
Dan Godard (21:18.718)
It was like, it's right, they're at our doorstep, you know? Yeah, yeah, it's part of our mission and yeah.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (21:21.188)
You're on the streets, yeah, downtown.
Hmm. Okay. one of the things you were telling me about that's unique about your current church as well is it has a lot of ethnic diversity. talk to us about that.
Dan Godard (21:36.494)
Yeah, it's pretty cool. So the Royal Oak Victory is more than 50%, probably more than 60 % Nigerian. And then we have lots of other African nations represented as well. So that's on top of that. And then we also have lots of Asian different nations, especially Filipino. And so it's a unique dynamic.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (21:47.652)
Hmm.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (21:53.902)
Yeah.
Dan Godard (22:05.202)
and a lot of fun as you can imagine. It's got a kind of a neat energy to it. So yeah, so it's been a pretty special thing. That was true in Moose Jaw too. When I first went to Moose Jaw, so this is 17 years ago, I used to say Victory Church of Moose Jaw is the most diverse place in the city. If you want to experience the diversity of Moose Jaw, you got to come to Victory Church. That's where you're going to experience it.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (22:10.518)
Yeah, yeah.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (22:26.992)
Yeah.
Dan Godard (22:31.638)
Now, since then, the city itself, Musja has become much more diverse. I mean, you can experience diversity in Musja in a lot of places now. But back in the day, you know, the church was, you know, which is a cool thing, right? It was pretty special to have. But we never, yeah, exactly, exactly. But we never experienced that to the degree that this church in Calgary has, yeah. So pretty special, yeah.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (22:48.561)
Mm Yeah. You're a pretty eclectic bunch. Yeah.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (22:57.402)
Hmm. Wow. So what what do you say are the factors that has contributed to that? Because that's a that's a large population of African peoples in one in one church that I don't think when it first began, what was that? So what's changed? What caused it?
Dan Godard (23:14.638)
Yeah, it's a pretty special thing. So, you the church started in 1990. And you're right, it didn't have nearly that level. But it was always, always had diversity ethnically, culturally. And as the church grew, I think that ethnic diversity did grow. By the time I left, that would be in 2008, it was striking. Like you knew it when you walked into the church, I would say it was probably 40 % non-white.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (23:35.994)
Mm-hmm.
Dan Godard (23:44.2)
So it was striking and the Nigerian population was the largest, the fastest growing group in the church at that time. I would say more than a quarter of the people were Nigerian at that time. And people used to ask us, like this was back when I was an associate pastor in the church and people would ask us all, how'd you do that? And how did that happen? And what do you do to have so much diversity in your church? And we would laugh and say, God did it. Like we honestly, it wasn't on purpose. It was just like,
Dr. Rob Chartrand (23:57.017)
Hmm.
Dan Godard (24:13.89)
just this wonderful thing that seems like God did. Now one thing we did do along the way was celebrate it. So, you know, we named it, we were like, hey, look at our ethnic diversity, isn't that cool? We did special like potluck meals where people brought their different foods and just celebrated it. Did special events where people could express their worship.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (24:20.26)
Mm-hmm.
Dan Godard (24:39.214)
in music in a different way or various things. We did celebrate it and that probably helped encourage it. But we never set out to be ethnically diverse. It just was part of something that we felt the Lord did. And we wanted to pour gasoline on it, feeling that it was something special God was doing. So that was back then. Now, here I am, you know, 17 years later and
People still ask us, you know, what did you do? And even for me, like coming back to the church, I'm like, wow, you know, I would ask the staff here and the leaders here, you know, how did this happen? And they all say the same thing that we said back then. We don't know. It just seems like something God did. We never did this on purpose, but it is a wonderful thing that we have and that we get to celebrate. And we try to see the strengths of the different
Dr. Rob Chartrand (25:23.13)
Hmm.
Dan Godard (25:36.686)
ethnic groups and embrace those. So, know, our Nigerian group is the most obvious because it's the largest group that we have. The passion for prayer is amazing. It is just like such a beautiful thing. So we try to embrace that, you know, and just go. So we have regular prayer meetings and prayer gatherings and in those our Nigerian group really take the lead and challenge us to pray and, you know, the rest of us feel backslidden when you hear
Dr. Rob Chartrand (25:38.49)
Yeah.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (25:48.964)
Hmm.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (25:53.178)
Yeah.
Dan Godard (26:05.922)
You know, those guys pray, it is just awesome. It fires us up. And so we want that to be like, well, let's gain from that, right? And our Filipino group, love to have fun and dance and party and sing and worship. So we try to embrace that and bring that in and allow that to influence our congregation. And so those would be some of the things I guess we do along the way.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (26:06.085)
Hmm.
Yeah.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (26:14.98)
Hmm.
Dan Godard (26:33.474)
But why it happens, you know, I think if you love people and celebrate people, they will feel at home. And if they feel at home, they'll invite their friends and family. And like attracts like, so people will invite their people they know. And that's just continued to grow.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (26:51.184)
How has this changed how you do ministry in the last year and half?
Dan Godard (26:57.538)
You know what? Not a lot. And honestly, I guess we do a lot of more listening. you know, I spend time, now I'm at this church and I spend time going, meeting with our leaders and many of them are Nigerian or many of them are African or this or that. So I will ask them a lot of questions and I ask them questions about their culture and about how they experience a Canadian church and what I can do to be more effective as a pastor towards that. And if there's
Dr. Rob Chartrand (26:59.204)
Hmm.
Dan Godard (27:26.99)
or landmines that I'm stepping on that I don't know about. And the number one answer I get is from, say, a Nigerian, which is the most common one for me, is please don't make this a Nigerian church. That's the number one answer I get. What they'll say back to me is we came to this church because we love it the way it is. And we're experiencing the word of God and worship and prayer and outreach and discipleship and...
Dr. Rob Chartrand (27:40.462)
Interesting.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (27:45.796)
Hmm.
Dan Godard (27:55.092)
If we wanted to go to a, you know, church that was of our culture, we could. Yep. Yep. And we're choosing this one. So please don't change it into that. You know, that's, that's the number one answer. And now after that answer, I do get other things that are precious or special, to a given group. So an example of that would be, there's a service called a crossover service, which happens at new years. I don't know you've heard, have you heard of a crossover?
Dr. Rob Chartrand (28:00.065)
homogeneous church. Yeah. Yeah.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (28:06.554)
Hmm.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (28:14.468)
Yep.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (28:23.363)
No, no.
Dan Godard (28:24.664)
So I'll tell you man, it's like as important as like a Christmas Eve service. It's just like so culturally embedded. And you cross over to the new year declaring God's promises, declaring God's praises, believing for what God is gonna do in the new year. And that is just an important thing. So that would be one where we're like, okay, we can embrace that.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (28:42.821)
Hmm.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (28:53.274)
Wow. Is there like a literal line you draw on the floor and you like...
Dan Godard (28:57.71)
crossover? Well, there's a time.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (29:00.528)
There's a time. Yeah, that's for sure. Yeah. I'm just such a visual person. I just thought I would put a line on the floor and I would love to cross over it to symbolize my. So what are some of the challenges that you face in your church that's obviously seeking to celebrate being multi-ethnic?
Dan Godard (29:09.26)
that we kind of.
Dan Godard (29:25.11)
Yeah, I mean, I'm new to it, so I'm not sure I've found it challenging yet or like difficult in any way. It's fun to, I guess one challenge is just to ask ourselves how do we celebrate each culture? How do we take advantage of that? I guess one question I have in the Nigerian culture is so many Nigerians in Calgary are believers. They're already saved. So.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (29:27.182)
Yeah.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (29:38.352)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (29:52.856)
Right. Yeah.
Dan Godard (29:53.506)
How do we do evangelism amongst the Nigerian community? I don't know. Like I'm trying to figure that out and learn about that. That's an interesting challenge. Yeah.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (29:56.836)
Hmm.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (30:01.902)
Yeah, yeah. Has the, has the ethnic diversity translated into leadership in the church? Like is your, your church leadership as diverse, say as the population of people in the pews?
Dan Godard (30:14.604)
Yeah, definitely in the leadership amongst the ministries of the church for sure, and amongst the elders and board members. But on staff, it hasn't translated across. So most of our staff...
Dr. Rob Chartrand (30:19.824)
Yeah
Dan Godard (30:32.588)
what we would call it Caucasian background.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (30:34.808)
Okay, yeah. Yeah. And that's probably been part of the historic makeup of the staff to like some have been there for a while.
Dan Godard (30:40.97)
Exactly, most of our staff are, yeah, have been here a lot of years, long-term staff members. Yeah, so we'll see, it'll be interesting to see in the next 10 years how that develops.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (30:47.598)
Yeah. Yeah.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (30:52.654)
Yeah, well, I'm even thinking about the clergy shortage crisis, right? And how do we, I think one of the challenges in our church in Edmonton was a lot of the youth of new Canadians, there's such a strong emphasis on pursuing education and post-secondary education after high school that something like,
clergy training wasn't like Bible school wasn't on their radar at all. It was it was a professional degree tip was usually the route that they were going into. And a challenge also was where they came from in their countries of origin, there weren't youth ministries because like the whole adolescence thing is very Western, very North American. And so the idea of going to a youth ministry when
Why would you do that when you just participate in the life of a church, right? So even youth pastors was an important thing. So new Canadians, I mean, it wasn't so much a priority to get their kids out to youth ministry, right? So do you find that that's a challenge in the context you're in?
Dan Godard (32:00.664)
Yeah, and I mean, I'm still learning. but I, one of the things that I've found is that some other cultures don't consider pastoring a career choice. So in other words, they would see pastoring as something you do along with your career, but not something you would choose as a vocation that's gonna pay the bills. So then, you know, then for us, it's like, okay, well,
Dr. Rob Chartrand (32:03.055)
Right.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (32:13.657)
Right.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (32:24.325)
Yeah.
Dan Godard (32:28.834)
those cultures would come in and say, yes, we'd love to step into leadership roles, but as far as stepping onto paid staff roles, not interested, it's not even in their paradigm.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (32:40.046)
Not even on the radar. Yeah, yeah, because in most places in the world pastors aren't We must be doing something wrong here. We could learn from that.
Dan Godard (32:44.238)
Exactly.
Yeah, well, can make our Church in the North listeners appreciate if you're getting a salary, you should pause and say, thank you.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (32:58.34)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So in your new role as a senior leadership, what have you been putting your energy towards at this time? I mean, you're early in the game, right? You're in like your first year here. The honeymoon's not quite over, but I'm sure you are thinking ahead, if I know you well enough. What are you starting to put your energy towards?
Dan Godard (33:21.666)
Yeah, I'm eight months in and so spending a lot of time listening, a lot of time meeting with people, a lot of time building relationships. know, ministry is mostly relational, right? Pastoring is mostly relational. So building relationships, getting to know people, trying to have positive interactions and encounters, know, put investment into the relational side of things. That's been just probably the number one emphasis.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (33:33.168)
Hmm.
Dan Godard (33:47.382)
And nice thing for us, the church was healthy when we came. So we didn't come with anything broken that we had to repair. But there's always, our church of our site, we're eight to 900 people, sometimes up close to a thousand people on Sundays. So, you know, there's always problems. There's just regular life. There's people go through difficulties in life and there's, you know, somebody's upset about this thing or that thing. So,
Dr. Rob Chartrand (33:51.802)
Yeah.
Dan Godard (34:15.286)
You know, I do have to at least put some energy into navigating the church's day-to-day challenges and routines. I've put a lot of energy into just our staff. We have 14 staff members altogether, some part-time, some full-time. And the staff team is, you know, they're the ones who are really leading the church in various ministries and programs. So...
connecting with them, building relationships with them. I've done a series of one-on-one meetings with each of our staff. So I don't directly coach most of our staff, but I wanted to meet one-on-one with each of our staff. I did the first meeting was to ask them just about the church. Tell me what do you see as kind of almost like a SWOT analysis of the church, but from everyone, right? If you're the...
youth pastor or young adults pastor or janitor or children's pastor, whatever your role is, I'd like to hear what you perceive as the strengths, the weaknesses, the opportunities, the threats of the church and that kind of thing. So I did a one-on-one meeting with all our staff on that. And then I did a one-on-one meeting with all our staff on how they feel about the transition and how they feel, what they loved about the previous pastor, what they're hoping will be true about me as well and what they're worried about with the transition, what are they scared of.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (35:27.311)
Hmm.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (35:36.048)
Yeah.
Dan Godard (35:36.27)
So I did a one-on-one meeting with them all on that, taking just copious notes, you know, just lots of listening, taking notes. And my third one-on-one meeting with them, and I do this over the course of a long time, but months, was to get to know them, ask them about their, you know, gift mix and personality mix and passions and that kind of piece. yeah, so that's been a big emphasis is doing those one-on-one meetings with our...
Dr. Rob Chartrand (35:41.381)
Hmm.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (36:04.142)
Hmm.
Dan Godard (36:06.124)
our staff team and then getting just getting to know them and their families. We've been doing dinners out with with each of them, getting to know their kids and building relationship with the staff kids has been a been a piece of our journey here. And then just dreaming together about what the future looks like, asking our leaders, our elders, our board, our staff, how do they envision the future? What are they dreaming about? And how do they see?
Dr. Rob Chartrand (36:30.287)
Hmm.
Dan Godard (36:34.38)
my role as part of that. so doing a lot of listening there and dreaming there. And then we do, because we're full as a church, we've maxed out our space. We're in two services and they're both full. So we're also doing lots of discussion about adding a third service. And we actually would have added a third service this fall, like as we speak, it would be launch time.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (36:47.757)
Okay, yep.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (36:56.144)
Okay.
Dan Godard (37:03.166)
except that we have a new lead pastor. So we're adjusting. Exactly. That's exactly what we felt. So we've said we're going to focus on the transition, adapting to our new lead pastor, who's a difficult guy to deal with, right? This new lead guy. So yeah, so we got to let the church adjust to that. then, which, you know, and it is a change like,
Dr. Rob Chartrand (37:06.672)
Too much change at once. Yeah.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (37:22.542)
He's a real piece of work. Yeah.
Dan Godard (37:32.364)
We don't feel like we're making big changes, but changing a lead pastor is a big change. And the guy we had before was here for 30 years, you know, so well loved and did a fantastic job. And a lot of the church, he's the only pastor they've ever known. You know, they got saved in this ministry or they grew up in this ministry. changing who their lead pastor is is a...
Dr. Rob Chartrand (37:38.756)
for
Dr. Rob Chartrand (37:42.485)
Mm Well loved. Yeah.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (37:51.194)
Yeah.
Dan Godard (37:58.966)
is a really big deal. So that has been honestly a big focus too, is just walking that transition out and walking with the people through that and helping them adjust and that. But we are dreaming of as soon as we can, as soon as we feel the church is ready for it, launching a third service. That'll be it.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (38:16.418)
Okay, well, I'm going to ask you about that third service in a moment. But first, let me ask you, is the previous senior pastor still part of the church?
Dan Godard (38:25.196)
Yeah, so that's a unique thing, right? Every church has to find their own way in that, and I don't think there's a one path fits all situations. But in our case, we decided that we felt that it would be best for our church if he stayed in the church. So he is, he's our pastor emeritus is what we call him. And he's right alongside us. He sits right on the front row right now with us. And he preaches about once every six weeks.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (38:30.266)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (38:40.57)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (38:50.607)
Wow.
Dan Godard (38:54.926)
and he just does that out of the goodness of his heart. He's not on staff with us or anything. But I do meet with him almost every week, I'd say every other week, and I have a long list every time I meet with him of questions, challenges, questions, things, you know, what about this, what about this, what about that, and how would you deal with this? And he's been a friend and mentor to me for 30 years. Actually, when he came to the church, I was already a youth pastor at the church.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (39:08.336)
questions.
Dan Godard (39:23.202)
So he became my senior pastor. Well, he adopted me as a youth pastor. I was already a pastor. So I think part of what's made it work is that we have such a great relationship, such a great friendship. And it hasn't gone perfect by any stretch. We step on each other's toes here and there and have to have hard complications and work our way through those. But I am so glad that he's stayed with us.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (39:30.032)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (39:42.98)
Okay.
Dan Godard (39:52.046)
I think he is too.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (39:53.538)
Yeah, yeah. So did you guys, did you guys when you said, okay, we're gonna make the decision, you stay in the church, do take on this role that you kind of set a few ground rules for him or for you, you know, if he is going to stay.
Dan Godard (40:06.7)
Yep, yep, for sure. We talked about what kind of things. We wrote up a little document actually, and we both signed it. like some of that was like the one he and I wrote together was more relational and it was more ministry related. Now the board also did document that was more legal, you know, that has more like the financial side and all that to it. But on ours, we talked through like how often would he even come to church and
Dr. Rob Chartrand (40:13.24)
Okay. Yeah, it's brilliant.
Dan Godard (40:36.654)
We decided that he would give a three month break after he stepped down. So for three months, he didn't attend, you know, and just went to other churches and so forth. And yeah, and then that he would keep this title, that he would be welcome to do ministry here, but that he would talk to me about that before he did and various things like that throughout the document that we'd honor each other.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (40:41.71)
Hmm. Yeah.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (40:57.648)
Yeah.
Yeah. Well, and the real litmus test is if you have a disgruntled staff member or a disgruntled parishioner who wants to go to him for leverage, do know what I mean? Or counsel, quote unquote. How do you handle that? So is that part of the conversation? Yeah, yeah.
Dan Godard (41:07.086)
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
Dan Godard (41:20.234)
It definitely is. We didn't write that down, but yeah, we definitely talked that through. you know, honestly, it takes a level on his part of emotional maturity and of graciousness and humility. I just, yeah, I feel very blessed for how he has handled it. And, you know, I think of the meetings I have with him where he'll ask me like, how's things going with this and this? And I'll say, it's great. we're,
Dr. Rob Chartrand (41:29.936)
Hmm.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (41:33.888)
for sure.
Dan Godard (41:48.812)
You know, we're shifting this and we're shifting that and I think the church is buying in and for him to not take that as an insult, right? To not feel like, wow, why do we need to shift that? I did such a good job of leading it to that level. But take it as we're building off of what he's done and taking it to a new level and he's done so well with that. So, yeah.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (41:58.873)
Right. Yeah.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (42:14.766)
Hmm. Well, you got to let the new guy lead. I mean, you just got to give him that breathing space. I know that we've made the transition from our previous church that we planted and we were there for 12 years. We are our number one rule is just like, but out, but out, but out, you know, so being very careful not to intrude and to give space for the new leadership and support them. Cheer them on. Yeah.
Dan Godard (42:18.018)
Exactly.
Dan Godard (42:36.846)
Now, one thing I should say too that I think has helped him be as great as he has been is that he does have another job. So, he is a pastor to pastors within our movement. He coaches other churches and most Sundays he's not around this church. Most Sundays he's somewhere preaching, he's somewhere coaching another church and he's very busy through the week.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (42:48.079)
Right.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (42:56.304)
Hmm.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (43:04.324)
Hmm.
Dan Godard (43:05.064)
He does that. He also works with a group we call our Victory Outreach Foundation, which in Calgary here does all kinds of street ministry. And I think actually you guys had a guest from the Victory Outreach Foundation, Jackie Meyer, Runs her victory as a human. Yeah.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (43:17.968)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Fantastic. Go back in the archives. Listen to that podcast is fantastic. Interview. Yeah.
Dan Godard (43:24.908)
Yeah. So he's busy doing those things. So that keeps him from, you know, engaging meddling in what we're doing because he's busy doing other things too.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (43:34.468)
Yeah. That's right. Yeah. Idle hands. Yeah. So the other follow up question I had was, okay, so you're gonna, you're gonna do a third service, third gathering. You have, this is not the first time you've gone down this road because in your previous church, you had space constraints and you were thinking about doing a fourth. So, two, a competent question here. Number one, when are you gonna do it? And number two,
Dan Godard (43:38.562)
Yeah.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (44:04.664)
What were the factors that helped you determine that? Because some places will do a Saturday night and two Sunday mornings, or they do two Sunday mornings and a Sunday night. Some will do just three Sunday mornings, or maybe an afternoon, right? So they're all right in the row. So what are you doing and what helps you make that decision?
Dan Godard (44:21.35)
Okay, wow. Yeah, we went from one service to two in both these contexts that I was a part of and in Musja and in Calgary here. And then in Musja we went from one to two and then from two to three. And then you're right, we were almost launching our fourth service when we felt called back to Calgary here. So we didn't launch that fourth service and you guys have talked about this before, but they've got a new building there. more space.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (44:38.958)
Yeah.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (44:48.046)
They got a new building so they back the two.
Dan Godard (44:50.72)
Yeah, that's fantastic. So, you know, I love the two service format. If I could stay at two services all the time, that's probably my favorite. I love the nine and 11. I love having options. I love that your worship team and your preacher is getting multiple reps at the service. I think it improves your preaching, improves your worship, improves your service. I think it gives lots of.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (44:59.076)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (45:11.866)
Mm-hmm.
Dan Godard (45:16.59)
Serving opportunities for your people so to service format is probably my personal favorite but I think it's you can add a third service or a fourth or fifth or sixth if you need to and That's where we're at now. So Yeah, I mean you're asking what time we're In Moose job, we did 8 30 10 and 11 30 all Sunday morning back to back
Dr. Rob Chartrand (45:36.142)
Yeah, what time what slot are you putting it in? And why did you choose that time?
Dr. Rob Chartrand (45:44.944)
Mm-hmm.
Dan Godard (45:45.93)
And yeah, we did that time because it was probably the least pressure on our staff. So we felt to do a Saturday night would have maybe been a decent time for people, but that our staff, that was their Sabbath day and rearranging their whole lives, you know, to figure out Sabbath. We weren't excited about.
we felt that was a pretty big takeaway. that was our reasoning, right or wrong. yeah, I'll tell you, doing those three services in a row really worked for us in Moose Jaw. So the context fit. Now here, we're gonna have to find out. It is our current plan would be to do the exact same thing here in Calgary. Yeah, to do those same service times. But yeah, for similar reasons, exactly.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (46:35.824)
For similar reasons.
Dan Godard (46:39.422)
We'll find out. The context here is a little bit different. The parking here is, yeah, it's a bigger church. you know, bigger building. The amount of people who attend is not that different, but the building here in Calgary is bigger. So, moving 400 people in and out of the building, you know, it takes a certain amount of time. So, your time between the services is challenging. And then even your service length.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (47:01.625)
for sure.
Dan Godard (47:07.148)
Right? So to do three services back to back to back like that at good times for people to come, 8.30, 10, and 11.30, you've got to keep your services quite tight on time. And we'll discover as we go here how that fits the culture here and how people, you know, react to that and adapt to that. again, in Musjah, it worked out. It wasn't easy. And there would be people in Musjah who would tell you,
Dr. Rob Chartrand (47:29.093)
Yeah.
Dan Godard (47:36.824)
They're longing for the days to get back to two services because, you know, they tell you whatever things were hard about three. I think probably the biggest thing that was hard about three in Moose Jaw was the fellowship after the service, you know, is restricted a little tighter.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (47:41.978)
Sure. Yeah.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (47:49.648)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah, with two, if somebody goes to a different service, you can hit them between services. Yeah. But we as pastors, what we're thinking is, I got to empty this parking lot and fill it again. Yeah. for sure. Yeah.
Dan Godard (47:58.389)
Exactly.
Dan Godard (48:03.5)
Exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I'll tell you, it matters, right? Fellowship before and after the service is a key part of the experience and a key part of the discipleship of your people and how you connect people into groups and ministry. And even a big part of evangelism happens in the foyer, you know, before and after the service. So it's challenging when you tighten up that time and make it feel a little more rushed.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (48:17.39)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (48:23.109)
Yeah.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (48:28.526)
Yeah, you can tell a lot about the health of a church by the buzz you hear in the lobby between services. Yeah. Yeah.
Dan Godard (48:34.554)
Mm-hmm. Exactly right. Exactly right. And even for the staff, you know, it's one of our key times to connect with our people is in the foyer, you know, before and after the services. shortening that time is challenging. However, I would say this for an advantage in Moosejah anyway, when we were going between one service and the other, it was crazy crowded in our foyer, which created a
Dr. Rob Chartrand (48:42.447)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (48:49.616)
Hmm.
Dan Godard (49:02.658)
buzz and an energy that was like amazing. Like it was so fun. You felt like there was momentum in the place because you could hardly move. And you might think that's a negative, but I'll tell you it, there's so much excitement around it. Cause you're like, look at all these people. Also love Jesus just like me and it's encouraging. Yeah.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (49:07.375)
Yeah.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (49:11.758)
Yeah. Yeah.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (49:20.548)
Yeah.
Yeah, and I appreciate about the design of that building when you guys did it, you had a lot of lobby space and I think churches can't underestimate the importance of a good size lobby for people. And I think in the new build, that's what they're investing in is, cause I was concerned when they're moving to that new building, I'm like, it does not have the same lobby and that's such an important part of the ministry.
Dan Godard (49:32.748)
Yeah. Absolutely.
Dan Godard (49:39.692)
Yeah.
Dan Godard (49:44.866)
Yes, exactly. And how you navigate the lobby, right? Not just how many square feet there is, but also just how you create spaces, exactly. Create flow, create spaces for people to connect and hang out. Yeah.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (49:51.994)
flow. Yeah.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (49:56.442)
Yeah. Yeah. Let's talk about the Canadian clergy shortage. As our listeners know, and I'm sorry if I'm beating the drum on this, but I will continue to do it because we need to talk about it. We're seeing a shortage of pastors across Canada. Is this something that the Victory Church movement is facing as one of their challenges?
Dan Godard (50:03.682)
Yeah.
Dan Godard (50:18.22)
Yeah, and I love your passion for it. I love hearing about it on Church in the North. So good on you for beating the drum. I think we are. I think Victory Churches feels it. We have a generation. The organization was started in 79. And so just the generation that was really kind of the founding generation is definitely, you know, in their senior years. And funny enough, I'm 50.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (50:23.448)
Okay.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (50:34.052)
Yep.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (50:44.175)
Mm-hmm.
Dan Godard (50:47.342)
And I'm considered the youth, you know, the young guy, right? Yeah, they're like, oh, young, young Dan, he can do it young, you he's got it. And I'm like, wow, guys, like we have to be thinking of the next generations for sure. So that is a key piece and we're wrestling with it as we look at our churches. you know, again, I'm so thankful, Jesse Barassa, Pastor Jesse, just to shout out to him. He's the one who...
Dr. Rob Chartrand (50:50.288)
Exactly.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (51:13.1)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Dan Godard (51:16.28)
took lead in the church in Musjah there. And he's a young guy, he's 33, or he was probably 34, 35 now, but young family and just a great fit. So there are young people around, but we need eyes to see them.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (51:32.94)
Yeah. But I mean, how hard was it for you to identify a potential successor for Moose draw, let alone for the Calgary church you're moving to? Right. So Jesse was kind of a rare find, wasn't he? Or is? Yeah.
Dan Godard (51:46.058)
Exactly, for sure. It's hard to find. And it's almost like you don't think you can find them at all. It's like there are none, you know. But I would say we need to pray. We need to ask God to open our eyes, because there are lots of great young people around. And there's lots of great leadership potential in them. It's seeing it, finding it, calling it out of our young people.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (51:50.96)
Yeah.
Dan Godard (52:10.658)
and encouraging them to step up and into major leadership roles. I'm believing they can do it. I believe they can take those big, big roles that sometimes we look at and go, we need someone more mature. Well, actually, yeah.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (52:22.542)
Yeah. So, so what are some of the steps, maybe more macro steps that your movement is taking to kind of address the problem?
Dan Godard (52:31.916)
So we have created something we call Fast Track, which is like a leadership development program. It's supposed to be done in-house. Churches do it in-house and invite people to take some courses, some theology and leadership courses, but mostly it's like mentorship and serving. And so, you know, we've added that. But I'll tell you, I don't think we're doing enough. I think our movement is feeling the pressure and
Dr. Rob Chartrand (52:37.573)
Mm-hmm.
Okay.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (52:53.006)
Hmm.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (53:00.409)
Okay.
Dan Godard (53:01.12)
in hard questions and just saying like what can we do, how can we do it. It's something that I think has maybe been talked about on Church in the North before but I think we need to honor and elevate the calling to full-time ministry in a special way and you know and to like be praying like be like God I heard a pastor say this just yesterday he's a guy on staff with us one of our associate pastors he said
Dr. Rob Chartrand (53:26.213)
Hmm.
Dan Godard (53:29.098)
in my family there has been a pastor for six generations and our family and that's like his extended family but he said our family has always prayed that in every generation there would be a pastor. So what struck me about that was that family honors the role of a pastor. Like it's not like they were like I guess if we have to have a pastor in every generation you know it was like
Dr. Rob Chartrand (53:32.943)
Wow.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (53:36.57)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (53:41.648)
Hmm.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (53:53.401)
Right.
Dan Godard (53:56.034)
man, that's what we're hoping for. That's what we're praying for. So I think if it's honored, if it's an elevated role, then we start to think when we look at our young people, let's see if some of our best and brightest would go after this vocation, you know? And we want our, you know, and God uses all kinds, so I don't wanna overemphasize that. Like God takes, you know.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (54:14.67)
Hmm. Hmm.
Dan Godard (54:24.632)
the weak and broken, like people like the likes of us and uses them. But I do think there is a sense in which if we elevate the calling, then we'll see more young people praying about, thinking about, and more parents even encouraging their kids in that direction.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (54:41.572)
Yeah, no, I agree. Yeah, and I mean, it's something to be said, we have a Moses, we have a Paul, we have, you know, all these educated, trained leaders in the Bible, I mean, who were God used as well, right, and to do significant things. And although Paul made much of his weakness, not just his strengths. Yeah, yeah.
Dan Godard (54:52.556)
Yes, absolutely, Yep.
Dan Godard (55:00.462)
Yes, exactly. It's a both end. And, you know, to honour my parents, like, my parents were very much career people, dad in the oil industry and, you know, very educated and my mom also had, you know, a nurse and so forth. But they raised us just saying, you know, follow God and do what he calls you to do. And if that's in the, you know,
quote unquote secular workforce, have at her. If it's in the church world, have at her. But yeah, I think more of that in the heart, even to train our parents to be thinking that way with their own kids, I think would help us along the way.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (55:43.396)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (55:48.878)
Yeah, for sure. And of course, I wrote three blog posts about this and I was very direct. And if anyone wants to read about it, I'm not I'm not self promoting, but I hope it's helpful. Rob chartran.com because I do talk about that. So let's do let's do some shorts here, Dan. I'd be interesting. What are you reading or what are you learning lately to help you personally in your leadership?
Dan Godard (55:53.974)
Yeah, I think that's
Dan Godard (56:01.128)
Nice.
Dan Godard (56:15.888)
man, I read a lot. probably my, you know, right now I'm reading Spurgeon a bunch. I'm an old soul. So I'm currently reading a book called Only a Prayer Meeting by Spurgeon. I love his soul winning book, which is kind of like lectures to my students, if you're familiar with that. It's more, more a collection of those. But, and I just finished R.A. Tory on prayer and on Bible reading.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (56:24.169)
wow.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (56:35.716)
Yep. Yep.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (56:45.072)
Hmm.
Dan Godard (56:45.518)
So I'm an old guy. Like I read the Puritans. I don't know. That's just me. But I usually, I usually have a book going on something popular, like actually. So my next pop pop church read is by a gal named Hosanna Wong. I don't know if you've heard of Hosanna Wong. Pretty neat gal. And she wrote a book called, uh, how not to save the world. So I'm looking forward to reading that one. I think it's on evangelism. I don't even know for sure, but I it's good. So, uh, so I've usually got one.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (56:49.26)
Okay. Okay.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (57:00.792)
Hmm.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (57:06.799)
Hmm.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (57:10.5)
Okay. Okay.
Dan Godard (57:15.832)
pop Christian like a Kyle Idleman or Craig Groschel or, you know, and then I've usually got a leadership one on the go, like a John Maxwell or there's one I recently read called Re-Leader. It was quite good leadership one. can't remember the author's name. He's talking about sort of taking on a new leadership role where you haven't. And then I'll often have one that's on sort of a development side. So I'm usually reading like a preaching book. I just read Warren Wiersbie's book on preaching. Just like...
Dr. Rob Chartrand (57:17.284)
Yeah.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (57:28.549)
Yeah.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (57:43.141)
yeah, okay.
Dan Godard (57:44.898)
I'll just pick one. I have lots of preaching books that I haven't read, so I'll grab one. I just actually also read one from the 60s on creative imagination in preaching. I can't remember the author's name, but back in the 60s, and it was a fun read. He just talks about using your imagination.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (58:01.392)
So is Spurgeon inspiring you to get a prayer meeting beneath the stage so that you can pound on the stage so that people will pray more fervently while you're preaching the gospel? That's great. Let me ask you a broader question then. And I did send this to you in advance. this just, our listeners don't think that I'm just spit balling and throwing it out into the.
Dan Godard (58:05.902)
Yes, exactly.
Dan Godard (58:12.056)
powerhouse of the church is the prayer meeting.
Yeah. Okay.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (58:28.944)
But if you could snap your fingers and change one or two things in the Canadian church, what would you want to see?
Dan Godard (58:36.128)
You know, this is probably a lot of pastors or a big heart, but I think the move from consumerism to being contributors is the big shift. that, don't know if I blame the Canadian church. I'm not sure if that's a uniquely Canadian problem or just a human problem. If it's maybe it's been true of the church throughout history. But I think to help.
Christians not go to church asking, what did I like about the service? But to ask the question, what did God speak to me in the service? And where did God challenge me, right? To be on mission. To me, that's the big shift that I think has to happen. We have to help people grow in Christ, but then we have to help them turn into contributors in Christ. And I just think, I think this...
Dr. Rob Chartrand (59:10.991)
Hmm.
Hmm.
Dan Godard (59:30.99)
I don't think there's a conflict between discipleship and mission or discipleship and evangelism. I think they have to work together. I think the day a person becomes a Christian, they need to be given a mission in Christ. Jesus said, follow me, I will make you fishers of men. So it's like day one, Day one, if you're gonna follow Jesus, start fishing for people and that's part of your discipleship journey. That's how you're gonna grow.
That'd be my big call to the Canadian church. Even, okay, I'll keep preaching. I'm on my high horse. I'll keep preaching. Even the way I raised my kids, you my wife and I raised our kids. They're all adults now and they're all doing their thing, serving Jesus wherever they are. But we raised them with a sense of, we don't just want you to be quote unquote good Christians. We want you to be useful in the kingdom of God. We want your lives to bring glory to God.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (01:00:01.189)
Hmm.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (01:00:04.73)
Go for it, yeah.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (01:00:28.559)
Mm-hmm.
Dan Godard (01:00:29.312)
If you have a mission, you're going to try to be a good Christian. Because, you know, you're not going to be effective doing whatever God's called you to do, bringing glory to God by loving people, serving people, leading people to Jesus, wherever. You can't make a disciple if you're not being a good disciple. So I just feel like if we raise our kids just to be, quote unquote, good Christians, just to be disciples, or if we say to our churches, you know, we're all about just being good Christians. Let's all try to help our church be good Christians.
and we don't call them to mission, I just think it would be hard for them to be motivated to be faithful disciples, good Christians. But if they're called to mission, if they're called to be contributors, not just consumers, if they're called to go all in serving Jesus wherever they are in their context, at home, at work, at school, then they'll be focused on their own personal discipleship because that's what's going to help them accomplish mission. So yeah, so that would be my call.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (01:01:07.524)
Yeah.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (01:01:26.19)
Well, well, I would just say I mean, the way to curtail the consumptive itch is to be on mission. Because your life has different purpose and different meaning than shopping or retail therapy. Yeah.
Dan Godard (01:01:40.49)
Exactly, Yeah, yeah, yeah. You we always tell our people, your glory is too small a thing to live for, right? So we're called to live for something bigger.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (01:01:47.662)
Yeah.
Yeah, amen, amen. Well, hey, with that, I wonder if you could close us off today by giving a word of encouragement to our leaders who are listening in from across the country. Okay.
Dan Godard (01:02:00.79)
I would love to do that. That would be just a huge honor. So all our leaders and particularly pastors, I'm just blown away by pastors in various contexts, small church context in particular, but everywhere in every context, know, every leader, every pastor has battles they face, struggles they face. And I think of that there's in the arena, right, is this little poem about just people who are, you know, blood, sweat and tears.
in the work, day to day, serving Jesus. That's what I honor, that's what I thank God for in our leaders. And I know it's tough, know wherever you are leading and wherever you're serving, there's spiritual battles, there's personal battles, you got your own life to wrestle with too, your own marriage, your kids, or singleness, or whatever is going on in your own personal world.
So, you you're facing all of those things and then you're saying, okay, now God, I want you to use me too. And I just encourage you to stay in the arena, stay at it, you know, be faithful. And, you know, probably the one big encouragement I would say is lead yourself to God, you know, take care of your own spiritual life. If that's the, that's sort of been my message here in this church with our staff is just your own intimate relationship with Jesus is the one thing that's going to...
help your ministry be better as well, right? And the one thing that you're gonna be thankful for, you know, if you blow everything else, but you get that thing right, then you're gonna be thankful five years from now, 10 years from now that you focused on your own relationship with the Lord. And you'd be glad you did that. George Mueller used to say, he said, the one great and primary business of every day is to have my soul happy in the Lord. I can have my soul happy in the Lord if I can be content in God, find my delight in him.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (01:03:41.968)
Hmm.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (01:03:50.905)
Hmm.
Dan Godard (01:03:57.098)
every day. Then the rest of life circumstances are going to come and go. You're going to have high highs and low lows in leadership. You you might be given a really tough calling where it's just like, ugh, rough. You might be given a really wonderful calling where it's like fun and more likely you're going to have seasons of both in your calling. But if your soul is happy in the Lord rather than in your calling, rather than in your season, then
Dr. Rob Chartrand (01:04:18.382)
Yeah.
Dan Godard (01:04:26.414)
you'll be sustained by that relationship. So that'd be my encouragement.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (01:04:30.924)
Amen. Good word. Good word. Well, hey, brother, thank you for joining us on Church in the North. We'll have to get you back in the future and hear what's up, hear what God's doing.
Dan Godard (01:04:40.94)
Yeah, well thank you. It's great to see you again, man, and it's great to just connect again with Church in the North. Yeah, what a privilege. Thank you.
Dr. Rob Chartrand (01:04:47.376)
Maybe if you're back in Mooshow, we'll just get you into the live studio with us. So, alright, blessings to you.
Dan Godard (01:04:52.578)
That would be fantastic.
Yeah, thank you.