Rob Chartrand (00:02.412)
Hey, we are so excited to have on Church in the North for this special summer series of the old youth guys. We've got with us Cecil Rast from Youth Unlimited. He's the regional director in Greater Vancouver, Surrey, BC, and we'll clear all that up in just a moment. But Cecil, hey, welcome to the Church in the North.
Cecil (00:22.318)
Thank you very much. Thanks for asking me.
Rob Chartrand (00:25.26)
So we want to know a little bit about your story. I mean, you've been at this game for quite a while. If those listeners who are just listening by audio, which is pretty much everyone, you're a little gray on top like me. But let's go back to the beginning just real quick. And why don't we talk about your journey in the ministry? Like, how did you get here? How did you end up working with young people?
Cecil (00:49.774)
All right. Yeah, it started, I mean, I grew up in a evangelical Christian home. One of those situations where I just, everybody I knew was Christian, my extended family, my immediate family, and I hung out, most of my social circle was the church and that kind of thing. And so that was my influence. As a teenager,
I remember my youth pastor kind of pulling me aside at one point around a fireside and just kind of said, felt like God was prompting him to tell me that he felt like I was being called into ministry. My parents each said that at separate times as well. And each time, and then my senior pastor did that at a separate time. And each time I would go like, no, not interested, not interested kind of thing.
Rob Chartrand (01:30.956)
Hmm.
Cecil (01:44.526)
But it did kind of register and eventually I decided to go to Bible school. Went to CBI in Abbotsford and then CBC in Saskatchewan. So I have had some winters there. And yeah, I packed a four year degree into five years and I have a lot of friends to prove that. And...
Rob Chartrand (01:55.5)
guys.
Rob Chartrand (02:00.844)
Alright.
Cecil (02:13.774)
Yeah, it's... Yeah, it just felt like God was very specifically calling me. So I kind of like to say I was dragged into ministry kicking and screaming and that, but I thought I knew what was best for me. And by the end, by the time I had interviewed with Youth Unlimited, I realized I had no idea. And God knew me so much better than I thought I knew myself. And I kept setting all these like...
Rob Chartrand (02:24.652)
Alright.
Cecil (02:42.382)
Well, I'll do this, but not this. And then that turned out complete opposite to what was best for me. And eventually ended up with kind of a youth ministry position, which as soon as I heard about specifically what it was, I just kind of, there was a bit of a, like, that's kind of why I was created even. It was that clear, that strong. I found my thing. And...
just as they were telling stories of the work that they do and how they did it and that. And up to that point in Bible school, I was going like, I don't know where I'm gonna fit. I don't know where I'm gonna fit. And just knew that God, because of the experience I'd had and the people that had spoken into my life, and that I just knew that God was calling me into ministry.
I just didn't know what it would look like, so I just kind of had to wait until suddenly at the end of my fifth year. As I was just before I was graduating, I met the people that I was to work with. So it's been great ever since. Yeah.
Rob Chartrand (03:51.052)
Okay, so I mean, you're in your early 20s, you've graduated. Where did you end up going? What was your first church or your first ministry?
Cecil (03:59.886)
Same place as I am now, Surrey Youth Unlimited.
Rob Chartrand (04:03.372)
Wow, okay.
Cecil (04:04.846)
37 and a half years exactly same place. Not too many people. Yeah.
Rob Chartrand (04:06.828)
Man, okay, so what was the starting role then? What was the first thing you did?
Cecil (04:10.286)
I was field staff, worked directly with kids and it was a much smaller team at that time. There was one person that had been working in the entire city of Surrey at that point and they just said, that guy needs help. And so they kind of sent me off there. I thought I was gonna end up like when I went to...
Joined youth Greater Vancouver youth youth for Christ. It was called at the time I thought it was gonna be on the beaches of Kitsilano that's what I was imagining and and Surrey 37 and a half years ago was just kind of rural and pretty kind of backwaters a lot of farms and cattle and stuff I got in the middle of the city everything was just disorganized and stuff and that's where I ended up and Yeah, yeah 86 October 86
Rob Chartrand (04:59.756)
Hmm. Wow. So this would have been like the late eighties, hey.
Okay.
Cecil (05:06.99)
was my start there. And I connected with three kids that were just through the person that had already been working. And he called them up and said, hey, there's a new guy. He's going to pick you up at the McDonald's and bring you over to my place. He had an injury, so went over there. And the kids just showed up. And they got into my car. And we drove over there and kind of connected. And those three kids were.
were, I feel like God just kind of like connected me with those three kids, because they knew everybody in the community. And I, through them, I got involved with the elementary school that they were a part of. They were like 11, 12, 13 years old. And so they're pretty young, but they just knew everybody. And as we connected and got to know each other, I just met all the kids and just started doing community youth ministry. So a lot of it was,
I was working directly with kids, community kids, at -risk kids, and I had a few volunteers. So that's how it started.
Rob Chartrand (06:17.26)
So tell us real quick, what is the work of Youth Unlimited? I mean, and maybe how that's distinctive, say, from local church youth ministry.
Cecil (06:24.718)
Yeah, okay. Youth Unlimited works, we're worldwide and the commonality is we work with youth through relationships. So it's a relational evangelism. And so the programs are tools to connect so that we can build relationships so that we can have an influence in the kids' lives. So it looks completely different in Surrey from Vancouver to...
you know, Ontario and Saskatchewan and like it, each staff, each area sets up programs that are useful for that community. And, and there's a lot of overlap, but there's a lot of, specific, specific, distinctions too. So ministry in, in Vancouver would even look different than out in Abbotsford, even though we're all part of the same, you know, greater Vancouver.
area and that because it's different needs but the commonality is all relationships with youth in order to introduce them to God.
Rob Chartrand (07:23.884)
Yeah. Yeah.
Rob Chartrand (07:29.74)
Yeah, and very specific to youth outside the church, although that includes youth in the church who come, but I mean, you're very much reaching outwards.
Cecil (07:36.046)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah, it wasn't always that, but it's evolved into that because we did one. I mean, there's no point in doing the same thing that the church is already doing. And so we, we, we, eventually we kind of were, were readjusting and making sure that we were doing something that where there's so many kids, why not work with the kids that aren't being directly connected with? So we can work arm in arm with, with the church and kind of, yeah.
connect with kids that aren't necessarily been met with. So.
Rob Chartrand (08:12.94)
Yeah, and I think historically Youth for Christ was very much on the rallies side of thing, creating a bunch of rallies. And then Young Life was very much about local community relationship. But I think both of your models have kind of evolved, right? And then you came into it, if you came into it in the 80s, that's when, that's the advent of local church youth ministry. That's when it really started to blow up, really.
Cecil (08:18.126)
Yeah, back in the day. Still get...
Cecil (08:27.63)
Right, yeah.
Cecil (08:36.302)
Right, right, yeah, exactly. So instead of like being competitive with the churches, there's no point in doing that. We're trying to work alongside and encourage churches to build an effective youth ministry. And so we're trying to augment and work alongside and kind of fill in the ranks a little bit. So we backed off from the rallies. Yeah, the rallies, we still have older couples meet us at different fundraisers or...
different events and that kind of thing. We met each other at the rallies back in the 50s and 60s and that kind of thing. It's so cool.
Rob Chartrand (09:08.332)
Yeah. Back when Billy Graham was the main guy.
Cecil (09:13.934)
Yeah, that's right. He was our first paid staff person. Exactly. So our claim to fame, I guess.
Rob Chartrand (09:17.196)
Yeah. Yeah. So how has your role changed then over the years in Youth Unlimited?
Cecil (09:26.318)
Well, like I said, in the beginning, I was like, I just loved working with at -risk kids specifically, you know? And so I was just kind of all in, putting all my energy into that. And sometimes would work with volunteers, but volunteers got in the way of me working with kids too. So it took a little bit. It's like, you know what, volunteers are good. And then gradually, as the team in Surrey grew, I took on more.
leadership in that. So it just was a very gradual shift as the as the staff and Greater Vancouver now has about 80 staff in that. So we there's you know, we have to organize it differently than when I started with 15 with 15 people, we need to make sure people are supported now. So that's now what my role is as a as a area or regional director, area director before that.
My role is to support and encourage and train and to create a bit of a vision. So make sure that the staff that are working in the trenches with the kids, a lot of times it can be thankless and a ton of emotional energy in that. So make sure that they're being feeling cared for and loved and heard and that they're being supported as well. So that's a lot of my job now.
Rob Chartrand (10:36.62)
Yeah. Yeah.
Rob Chartrand (10:43.084)
Yeah. Yeah. So you're caring for the workers who care for the kids, right? And yeah. Do you, do you get any, work rate at the coal face with young people still like are there?
Cecil (10:46.67)
Exactly, exactly.
Cecil (10:52.366)
Yeah, I still do through my staff who are running some of the programs. I know most of the core kids in each of the programs of the staff that are doing it. And yeah, it's fun. I still need to connect and hang out with kids and kind of hear their stories and encourage them. But it's also a ton of fun watching younger staff who are just excellent. And...
Rob Chartrand (11:01.068)
Yeah.
Cecil (11:19.726)
at what they're doing and just kind of watching some of them as they've kind of grown up through the ranks and we're like, wow, they're so much better than I ever was kind of thing. So, and that's my goal. Like if I can encourage them and train them to be the best that they can be, awesome. If they can be better than I ever was, that might be kind of thing. Awesome. That's great. I can celebrate that. That's a win. Exactly.
Rob Chartrand (11:39.18)
That's a win, yeah, totally. Yeah, yeah. So you're in Surrey. What's distinct about Surrey and Youth Unlimited? I mean, talk about your own local context, what you guys are doing, say, as opposed to rural Saskatchewan or Markham, Ontario or whatever. What are you doing in Surrey and what's it like?
Cecil (11:59.854)
Surrey is one of the younger cities, I think in Canada, we have a lot of immigrants moving in. Government sponsored refugees, there's a ton of people that have ended up settling here. So in specifically the area that I live in, I am a white person who is like a visible minority by far. And there's days when like I might be the only white person I see.
Rob Chartrand (12:07.596)
Mm -hmm.
Rob Chartrand (12:24.876)
That's awesome.
Cecil (12:29.902)
including the people that we work with and that's awesome. I think that's great. It makes it interesting. So there's a lot of, because of a lot of the people that have moved into this area, a lot of them come with very traumatic backgrounds. Some of them are refugees and there's some really difficult stories in that. So we've worked with kids that have mental health issues right off the bat.
and they're struggling. And then there's, you know, the shift to a whole new culture that we're dealing with as well, and everything in between. So we have programs that can just allow and be inclusive of everybody. I just love on everybody listening here. So we've got some pretty cool, innovative programs like a garage, just young people that want to learn how to
Rob Chartrand (13:16.532)
Hmm. Yeah.
Cecil (13:27.15)
Because we're in the city and a lot of them don't have opportunities. A lot of them don't have father figures in their lives. A lot of them don't have cars or an opportunity to work on cars and that kind of thing. But there's still that interest. So we've created a garage. It's called Young Guns Garage. And young people that are interested in that work alongside mechanically, sometimes actual red scale mechanics. And...
mechanically inclined volunteers and that and it's just this awesome, awesome place where they can learn skills that will potentially give them jobs down the right road but also they're developing character, Christian character and in the shoulder to shoulder time that is spent, they learn life skills and about God and all that kind of stuff. It's not sit down and like let's have a Bible lesson.
but it's experienced life together. And I tell you, the last time I was there, I was just kind of trying to observe and the atmosphere there was incredible. Like the kids, these kids coming from sometimes pretty difficult situations and there's a respect and the dignity and they're treating each other so well. It was just such a positive uplifting environment. I'm like, wow, something really good is happening here. And of course there's opportunities to talk about.
talk about God and that's what we're looking for. We want them to hear that there's a God that loves them. And then we'll go from there, kind of just continue the conversation along the relationship. We have young mom's program, young dad's program, skater program. We've got arts programs and drop in ministries and that. So we've got tons of different kinds of things that we do.
Anything that we can come up with that can be a tool to connect with kids. And the tools are dispensable and ever -changing depending on what's needed. So we don't have any sacred cow programs. If it's not working, if it's past its best, like its due date, it's like best shelf life, that's the word. Yeah, if it's...
Rob Chartrand (15:43.724)
It's sniff, it's shelf life, it's the sniff factor.
Cecil (15:48.398)
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, if it's going bad, then we'll just like unceremoniously, you know, abandon it and find something else that's more effective because, you know, communities, the community is constantly changing and shifting. Needs are always interesting.
Rob Chartrand (16:04.588)
Now, when kids are coming in, it's clear that you're a Christian organization, right? But you're not kind of heavy -handed in the proselytization, but you let that flow naturally through relationship? Is that kind of the ministry philosophy?
Cecil (16:10.67)
Mm -hmm. Yeah.
Cecil (16:15.47)
No. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah. We, we, especially in in Greater Vancouver now, like there's there are people have a lot of different faiths. So so if we're if we come across right from the beginning, so you're wrong, we're right. And let's let us convince you of how right we are. And that that does not I would not.
want somebody to come across. I wouldn't give anybody time a day, so I don't expect other people would too. So, but everybody wants to feel cared for and loved and heard and known and that, and that comes directly from God. That's like us expressing who, how God feels about those people. Nobody ever turns that down. Nobody ever, when they're having a hard day, refuses someone who just is willing to look in their eyes and care for them and say, what can I do to help? Just tell me how you're feeling.
kind of thing. And that is literally just kind of like presenting Christ to them. And when they see who we are, it becomes a positive thing as opposed to something that we're trying to push down on people.
Rob Chartrand (17:30.252)
Yeah, yeah, confrontational evangelism in a pluralistic culture is is is not a win. It's it's a you've got it. You got to have more nuance to it.
Cecil (17:36.91)
No, no.
Yeah, yeah, in the 70s, I was convinced that was great. But that's how it's like, go door to door and evangelize.
Rob Chartrand (17:43.34)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We need to be wise as doves and shrewd as serpents and as Jesus would say. But on the other hand, I mean, do you find like with your context that loving and serving people can be pretty easy compared to gospel witness, right? And so some of your volunteers,
Cecil (17:51.406)
Yeah. Yeah.
Rob Chartrand (18:07.82)
may never get the gospel witness, do you know what I mean? Like it's easy to just stay in the lane of service, but how do you, with nuance and with, in a very appealing way, eventually share Jesus, do you know what I mean? Like it's.
Cecil (18:10.862)
Yeah.
Cecil (18:24.494)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, yeah, how do we not become social workers? Is that where you're asking? Yeah, that's a question that we always have in front of us, right? Because there can be, you can go like, there's gotta be a balance. Like we, Christ fed people before he talked to them. So we have to, we are trying to work with people in a balanced way. So if they're hungry, we'll,
Rob Chartrand (18:29.324)
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Rob Chartrand (18:34.956)
Mm -hmm.
Cecil (18:54.222)
provide a breakfast program and that. But along that, you can't just do that because then we're basically doing exactly the same thing that every other government service is doing. And what makes us different is that we also have a faith and we have a relationship with God and that it's important imperative that others hear about it. It's life changing. That's how their lives can actually be changed.
and we know that and believe that. So we're constantly reminding ourselves, putting that out there, like how do we balance that? And yeah, it's a constant rebalancing, because there's times where it's like, we just need to do some real practical stuff here.
And that, but alongside, we can never just say, well, you know, we're just, we're just going to do exactly the same thing as social services in BC is doing. It's like, that's, that's not a benefit. And we have had staff who worked in the school system and that kind of thing. And, and because there's that limitation of what can you say, you can't offer a real deep spiritual hope in a school system that's very political.
Rob Chartrand (19:58.796)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Rob Chartrand (20:07.724)
of it.
Cecil (20:15.502)
And that's so they've come over and go like, it's so nice to be able to say what we know is the truth. And that's so that's that's definitely there. We're always watching for those opportunities in every situation. When I do a one on one or when I'm doing a small group or a large group activity, when I'm doing a drop in there, we are always watching for the opportunity in the relationship to to take the next step. Sometimes it's just one step. Sometimes it's very basic.
Rob Chartrand (20:20.651)
Hmm.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Cecil (20:44.718)
One of the first conversations I had after I graduated was with a kid who didn't even really understand the concept of God. This was me coming after five years of Bible school. I learned all these big words like sanctification, and I couldn't quite figure out how to use the word sanctification in a conversation where the guy didn't even understand the concept of God, but he knew about the devil. And then I'm like, that's interesting. After my five year little Christian bubble, I'm going like, huh.
Rob Chartrand (20:58.22)
hehe
Cecil (21:13.934)
Got to rethink this a little bit. Clearly, there was a spiritual need, but how do I take the first step? Because I want to quickly get to the end where it's like, he's going like, I believe in Jesus. It's changing my life. But there's a lot of steps in between to get to that.
Rob Chartrand (21:29.804)
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's a process to teach all of that. You know, I was thinking of David Kinnaman's book, it's a few years old now, but it's Faith for Exiles. And in the latter, one of the latter chapters, he talks about mission with young people, emerging. So this would be emerging generations and probably even your young leaders, where they find it very easy to do social justice. They're big on social justice, but very few of them do evangelism, right? And part of it is in the cultural,
Cecil (21:35.658)
Yeah.
Cecil (21:54.958)
Yep. Yep.
Mm -hmm.
Rob Chartrand (22:02.316)
you know, conversation, everyone's gonna applaud you for social justice, but nobody's gonna applaud you to invite people to come and die to self and surrender your life to Christ and admit that you're a sinful, broken person in need of God, right?
Cecil (22:11.694)
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. And that's those are unfamiliar terms in our culture, in our society, even in a lot of religious Christian situations. And yet that's what we're called to do. And that's where I think.
Because there's 80 of us all working together and we meet on a regular basis and we have like, we are reminding ourselves we're brought to that. And a lot of what we do too is like, if I'm not spiritually connected with Jesus, then it's easy to kind of like that kind of slowly moving into just being another social worker.
But my passion for Jesus myself is what keeps me connected and going like, I want to share my faith. I want to see the realization of a young person who's never experienced a positive spiritual experience or had a good conversation like that, who's never heard that God loves them, as simple as that. And just...
see the complete change that happens over time, sometimes quickly, but a lot of times just over time. And that only happens with the spiritual dynamic, as well as the physical and emotional and spirit. So, yeah.
Rob Chartrand (23:52.268)
Yeah. Yeah.
Rob Chartrand (23:57.388)
So you got family?
Cecil (23:59.054)
No, I got family, but I'm not married, no. That was...
Rob Chartrand (24:02.284)
Okay, so you haven't had to put your kids through the youth ministry then? Yeah, yeah. Okay. So, yeah, no, well, but you do have family. Who's your family then?
Cecil (24:06.894)
No, no, no, I haven't. No, no. That's a quick question.
Cecil (24:16.718)
I grew up one of five and that and we're spread all over North America and yeah, still connected, sported, they kind of walk alongside me and follow what's going on. My spiritual family, yep, yeah. Very involved in my local church, of course.
Rob Chartrand (24:36.012)
But your spiritual family, you've got to have some close brothers and sisters around you.
Cecil (24:47.085)
Youth Unlimited, huge spiritual connection there. We're family there because we're going through the same kinds of things. We're a bunch of youth workers all together. It's kind of a unique situation to have 80 people all doing the same thing and some pretty difficult situations. So people get what I'm going through when I'm having a rough day or whatever. And we're pushing each other, always reminding each other to...
to be growing and learning and experiencing kind of thing. So yeah, my spiritual walk, it's like various, various different kind of envelopes and that. So it's good.
Rob Chartrand (25:34.572)
Yeah. So I got to imagine, I mean, in the work you're doing in the organization, you've been in the organization for a long time. You've seen a lot of people come and go, you know, cause I, you know, when they start, they start having young families and whatnot, it's hard to keep doing the work sometimes, but are there people, are there people in the organization that have been there for a long time with you?
Cecil (25:41.014)
Yep.
Cecil (25:49.774)
It is.
Cecil (25:54.03)
Yeah, yeah. I'm not the oldest, believe it or not, in Greater Vancouver, I'm not the oldest. There's someone that's been around five years before me. In fact, he was the first person that I sat down for coffee with the first day that I got hired. But yeah, there's less and less. There's several people that have been around a long time.
Rob Chartrand (25:59.372)
Ha ha ha ha ha!
Cecil (26:19.982)
That's a uniqueness of Youth Unlimited because we celebrate the different milestones of ministry. And it's not unusual, like, for people to be celebrated for 40 years, this last national conference, there was somebody being celebrated for 50 years. So people stick around a long time. And I think a lot of that is because a big part of what we're trying to do is...
Rob Chartrand (26:43.084)
Wow.
Cecil (26:48.814)
be supportive of each other and love on each other and make sure that we're living balanced lifestyles, right? So I, part of my job as a director, someone who's supporting and encouraging and supervising other staff is to make sure that they're also, because everybody comes here passionate about the work, passionate about helping people that have never heard about Jesus and maybe having really difficult times in life and that.
but you also have to take care of yourself. Those that are married, it's important that their priority is their own family. They can't forget about their own family. Because the example, I've got one staff member, he's been around for 15 years, he's got a couple of young girls and his wife and that, and he lives in the area where he ministers.
What he says is like, he wants the boys, the skate boys that he works with to see that he loves his daughters and his wife. Because there's not a lot of examples like that in a lot of these inner city areas that we're in where men just kind of take off or the priority isn't, I love and will protect my family. They're my number one priority. And that says a lot about how these men can grow up and be men.
as well, right? A real man that takes care and loves and protects and follows Jesus and brings their family along with them.
Rob Chartrand (28:18.124)
Right. Yeah.
Rob Chartrand (28:27.628)
Hmm, yeah. Yeah, that modeling of family and parenting and husbands, you know, their spouses is so critical, right? It's not just the words we proclaim. So, I mean, you've obviously been at this for a while. How have you seen youth ministry change over the years? Is there anything changing about young people or the way you work with them?
Cecil (28:44.11)
Mm -hmm.
Hmm.
Cecil (28:52.654)
Yeah, there's things that change and there's things that stay exactly the same. One of the big things, I think, is to do with the online presence and our phones and all those addictive things that we've heard so much about. The level of anxiety in youth is huge. And I, you know, it's...
Rob Chartrand (28:56.492)
Okay, well talk about both of those.
Cecil (29:22.766)
A lot of people talk about that and everything, but we saw, especially during COVID, we literally, some of the staff that were working, we never stopped working with the kids. We had to be very creative in how to do that, but a lot of, especially government services, they just had to shut down everything. So a lot of the youth and families that we work with were already isolated. And so this even isolated them more. And they just were encouraged to kind of disappear into their basements and not to be with anybody.
And so it was very difficult and especially younger people, grade, there seems to be a group of like grade seven, grade eights that just kind of disappeared and they didn't show up after COVID. They were just kind of, they just disappeared into their basement and they were just online doing their thing and they didn't reemerge when everybody else was reemerging. And like, especially that Mike who works with skate, cause that's the age of.
the kids that he starts working with. And he goes like, I can't find them. They're not here. And he's a huge part of the community. And they were already had a tendency to isolate. And they were just kind of convinced that it was too scary. Maybe there's some addiction of they're just online playing the games.
Rob Chartrand (30:28.044)
Interesting. Yeah.
Cecil (30:48.878)
And there's a lot of really interesting things that is happening. Like I've heard some reports that teenage pregnancy is going down because of the addiction to phones and that kind of stuff, which is amazing. Yeah, yeah. So there's a few really interesting things like that that are happening because of our phones and these kids that are just grown up, they've never not had that connection.
Rob Chartrand (31:01.1)
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
Cecil (31:15.886)
I mean, I struggle trying to put my phone down and making sure that I'm disciplined. I was an adult when these things came around, but the kids that have never not had it, it's just a part of their life. So.
Rob Chartrand (31:29.868)
Yeah, yeah, the digital natives. So what you said, some things haven't changed. Talk to us about that.
Cecil (31:38.83)
Well, again, I kind of touched on it a little bit before, but like every kid still wants to be known, still wants to be heard. If you, when I look into the eyes of a young person, so like, I'm here, you matter to me. Those kinds of things never change. And the toughest, hardest kid, when they start to believe that you actually care about them, that you want to connect with them, that never changes.
Doesn't matter about the details, whether they're addicted to their phone or back in the day, they were kind of roving around the streets with their gang friends or whatever it was. That was always the commonality. You get to know them, get through the kind of the rough, the rough hurting shell and that, and when they actually get to trust you and they start to believe when you say, you matter to me, I see you, I hear you, God loves you.
And they go like, and that's, that will always, it's just humans, right? We all wanna be so known and to be seen and that so.
Rob Chartrand (32:49.132)
So will they hear it from an old guy like you?
Cecil (32:51.95)
Yeah, they do. Actually, one of my best volunteers when I still thought I was young and cool. I remember the day that I realized I wasn't, but we won't necessarily talk about that. But one of my most effective volunteers when I was probably 10 years in was kind of a mother figure. And I had all these kids and I was kind of the cool, loud
a youth worker and I'm like, hey, let's go off and do this and let's do that. And she would come along and just love on them and care for them. She was a nurse by trade and she was a mother and she just came, she just showed up. She would come along on our camping trips and I'd be the guy going, hey, let's go off and do this. And she would stay back and prepare the most amazing meals for these kids that don't get homemade meals.
ever and they got it around a campfire and she just loved them and when they got scratched she was there and everything she was she just loved on them they absolutely loved her and there's she's still in contact with a lot of the kids 20 years later because they there's relationship and a bond and it it's not about how cool you are it's how how much you love them if they if they believe that you you actually love them and care about them.
Rob Chartrand (33:49.26)
Hmm.
Cecil (34:14.67)
Doesn't matter what you look like, how cool you are, or what the specific activity is that you're doing. And that's all.
Rob Chartrand (34:14.988)
Yeah. Yeah.
Rob Chartrand (34:19.884)
Yeah. Well, and I think that it's important for our listeners who are hearing this conversation to understand that. Like, you don't have to be able to, you know, be a digital native. You don't have to have the coolest clothes or haircuts or know the lingo. Everything's lit, you know, but you got to have a heart for young people and you can just love them and show them they have value and meaning and worth. I mean, that's...
Cecil (34:37.326)
No. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Rob Chartrand (34:48.076)
That's 99 % of the work. It's not just being cool and being, and actually if you try, if you're, you know this, like, I mean, anyone who's trying to be cool is not cool. Like, dude, you're trying too hard.
Cecil (34:50.254)
Yeah. Yeah.
Cecil (35:00.654)
Exactly, exactly. And every kid can see that a mile away. When an adult is trying too hard to be cool, they just like turn around and walk away because you're just so not. But if you're authentic and you are just comfortable in your own skin, that comes across and that makes other people comfortable around you. And so whether you're outwardly cool compared to a youth or not,
Rob Chartrand (35:05.644)
Yeah.
Rob Chartrand (35:13.644)
Yes.
Cecil (35:29.71)
they don't really care about that. I have very effective and very powerful youth workers that work alongside me. Some of them are very cool and some of them are just like frumpy and not at all. And I also have some super quiet, introverted youth workers and we're like, man, like can they work with disadvantaged or traumatized youth? Absolutely they can because there's really quiet, insecure.
shy people that they can connect with that me and my kind of bold, loud, obnoxious personality just kind of bowls over and they just like, I can't, I can't deal with Cecil. No, no, exactly. Yeah.
Rob Chartrand (36:04.108)
Yeah.
Rob Chartrand (36:08.396)
They don't want the Energizer Bunny, right? They want the Raggedy Ant doll that's just gonna be quiet and lay there, you know?
Cecil (36:15.438)
Yeah, exactly. So we need everybody. You just have to be interested in loving young people.
Rob Chartrand (36:22.796)
Hmm. So if you were to go back, to 1986 and you're just, well, actually, no, you were probably in ministry whenever your, your first five years of ministry, you have a conversation with your young self. What would you tell yourself? what advice would you give to your young, fresh into the work self?
Cecil (36:28.558)
Mm -hmm.
Cecil (36:42.222)
When I first started, I felt a lot of pressure to get it all done kind of thing. Like I didn't have a sense of time. Kind of like I was trying to...
get people to kind of become followers of Jesus before the other steps had happened. And I would say just relax and trust God to do God's work. And I don't have to feel the pressure and the weight on my own shoulders, because God's gonna do what God does a lot better than when I'm trying to imitate him and do that. All I have to do is be faithful.
Rob Chartrand (37:06.38)
Hmm. Hmm.
Cecil (37:27.918)
He introduces me to the people and I connect with them and I love on them and tell them about how much God loves them. And they go like, what, really? God loves me? I thought he hated me or whatever, whatever it is. Another thing would be a similar kind of thing. It's about people, not programs. Programs can come and go.
Sometimes they work, sometimes they don't hang on to a program too long, but just always be available to the people. And if you don't love them, then they won't believe that God loves them either. Like our example to people is so important. If they don't believe that I really care about them, then when I'm telling them about a God they know nothing about.
Rob Chartrand (38:09.004)
Hmm. Yeah.
Cecil (38:22.766)
they're going to see the same kind of thing. They're going to go like, well, you don't really care about me, so why would I believe that God does? You're telling me about this. So I think our example of loving is incredibly powerful and allows for them to believe that God actually loves them.
Rob Chartrand (38:41.868)
Yeah. Yeah. So.
Cecil (38:43.918)
and then just walking alongside them instead of preaching at them, just walking alongside them, looking for all those teachable moments because there's teachable moments every single day and to learn to recognize those things and just kind of relax and wait for God produces those situations constantly as long as we have our eyes opened and are paying attention. Yeah, exactly, exactly. Yeah. Yeah.
Rob Chartrand (39:05.292)
Yeah, and are courageous enough to speak. So, has your mindset changed then? From then till now? Like the way you see ministry, the way, I mean, obviously you're given some very practical reasons, but behind that, there's a way of seeing and a way of being that has changed.
Cecil (39:28.43)
What would you mean? Could you expand on that a little bit?
Rob Chartrand (39:32.652)
Well, you know, when you're in your 20s, you've got something to prove. You've got, you know, everything short term, everything, you know, whereas now, I mean, you're long in the tooth. Looking back, you've got a different frame of reference, right?
Cecil (39:34.798)
yeah.
Cecil (39:45.038)
Ha ha ha!
Cecil (39:49.966)
Yeah, that's true. That's true. I think I trust that God will do what God's going to do. And I don't feel as much like I'm responsible. I think coming out of Bible school, I was like, I was just like, raring to go. And I was kind of like, had a little bit of that sense of responsibility myself, like I've got to do certain things. And now I realize more that I have to be.
someone who reflects God's character. And that's where the power of the relationship, where people are really gonna be changed and challenged. Like when they see God in me and experience God because of my interaction with them and that. So being like the Beatitudes as opposed to kind of the 10 commandments kind of thing, right? It's like.
Rob Chartrand (40:43.852)
Hmm. Hmm.
Cecil (40:45.422)
It's easy, like, I haven't killed anybody, but am I merciful? So, character, yeah, yeah, exactly. Character is irreplaceable.
Rob Chartrand (40:50.284)
Right. Character. Yeah. Hmm. Hmm.
Yeah, yeah. I wonder if you might be able to share some of your biggest youth ministry fail stories. Do you got any great stories to share?
Cecil (41:05.774)
How long do you have? I have one that popped into my mind as soon as you said you were gonna ask me that and there's another one that I'm going like I don't really want to share this but I think it might be important to share this one. The first one was like within the first year was it was a fundraising failure. I...
Because Youth Unlimited is not for profit. We do a lot of fundraising for the events that we do and all that kind of stuff. So just, yeah, we have to raise our own support as well. So 100%, everything, we're just being really creative. And I had this great, naive, inexperienced idea. Worked really great the year before, where I grew up, there was a,
Rob Chartrand (41:42.316)
Yep. You have to raise your own support too. Yeah. Yeah.
Cecil (42:01.966)
a big sports tournament that was being hosted right next to the church that I grew up with. And the church got involved and did this. It was a got involved and we got this awesome site and we kind of did this snack shack kind of thing. And we just sold snacks and stuff, made thousands of dollars at this baseball diamond, like four different baseball diamonds were kind of right in the center. Everything worked out perfect and everything. So.
The like my first year, which was the next year, it was it was in North Delta here close close to me. I'm gonna like cool. I've already done that. It works great. I'll for sure get thousands of dollars will be will be loaded. We'll be able to do all these summer summer events and everything. So spend all this money bought all this food got all my young kids like they're all volunteers and everything and we made nothing because the because the because the site that we were given we didn't have a choice was just nobody.
Nobody was going by and the weather was terrible. It was like raining and it was like everything, nothing worked out. So like it was so bad that that some of the, some of the vendors, like they just said, they didn't even make me pay my bill. It was like, I was, it was like, man, that was, that was so bad. I hadn't, so the kids worked for days and I had nothing to give them. so, and they hadn't earned anything towards their summer camp. I'm like, I felt so bad. So that didn't work.
Rob Chartrand (43:13.163)
wow. Wow.
Rob Chartrand (43:29.164)
That was your early year. That's your first year?
Cecil (43:30.606)
That was within my first year or two. Yeah, exactly. And then another one. This was a few years later. I was invited to do an interview on a local television. I think it was a Christian television station. And they were just kind of asking me different stories. And I started telling this story of a couple of the kids that I worked with and their mom and their whole family situation.
Rob Chartrand (43:33.868)
Yeah. Wow.
Cecil (44:00.91)
And I ended up sort of like, you know, telling the story, probably, like not probably, definitely way too many details and everything. And I was kind of, yeah, yeah, exactly. And I was kind of threw the mum under the bus a little bit. I was just kind of, and a bit of selling myself as a bit of a white knight. Look at how great I am. Like this poor needy family and everything I'm telling all this. I didn't give personal information, but I gave enough detail.
Rob Chartrand (44:11.34)
TMI. Yeah.
Rob Chartrand (44:18.22)
Hmm.
Yeah, yeah.
Cecil (44:29.422)
that if you know them, you know them kind of thing. And so a couple of days later, it wasn't live, so it was recorded. A couple of days later, the mom of this whole story, she calls me, she's all excited, she's like, Cecil, I'm listening to you talk, tell this story on this TV. And it's like, you're talking all about it. And I recognized from what she was saying that it was early on before I kind of like, no.
Rob Chartrand (44:50.86)
no.
Rob Chartrand (44:56.46)
if you hadn't heard the whole thing. no.
Cecil (44:58.574)
So I just like, crap, what do I do? And I just kind of kept her on the phone and she missed, she missed the part where I was like, not very nice and kind of make myself look like a great person and her not like, I still remember that. Cause it was, I was, it was so disingenuous. And I was like, it was, I was trying to make myself look like, aren't I a wonderful person to help these poor needy people? I'm this white knight coming into these, this impoverished situation and.
Rob Chartrand (45:09.676)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Cecil (45:25.646)
They don't have their life together, but don't worry, I'm here. Me and God, we're gonna fix this whole thing. It was just, I've never forgot that because it was such, I was, the people that I was saying I was loving to, I wasn't actually, I was being completely selfish about that. So that was a terrible failure. And I've never forgotten that.
Rob Chartrand (45:30.092)
Fixed and save them. Yeah.
Hmm.
Rob Chartrand (45:40.076)
Yeah. Yeah.
Rob Chartrand (45:44.876)
Yeah, I think some of our young people who are listening in might not understand radio. The advantage of this, this isn't different than today. Today, that would be recorded and it would be online forever. And somebody could go back and listen to it and you could get canceled 10 years later where radio was gone. It was gone.
Cecil (45:51.406)
Hahaha!
Cecil (46:03.758)
yeah, yeah. It was one, it was done and gone and there's no evidence of, there's a few things, there's a lot of things actually that I'm very thankful. I'm very grateful that I was a youth worker back before everything was recorded and repeated over and over and over.
Rob Chartrand (46:08.908)
I'm sorry.
Rob Chartrand (46:18.252)
Yes, yes.
Well, in some of the activities we did, you can't do that today. I mean, you just would never get away with that. Waivers aside.
Cecil (46:25.646)
no, no and everybody, everybody, everybody, the parents and the teachers and the schools, everybody's cool with these things and now you can't even talk about the things we did because like, that's terrible. Why would you do that? That's so politically incorrect. Like, different time? I don't know.
Rob Chartrand (46:38.756)
You
Yeah, yeah, yeah, don't cancel us for those. Yeah.
Cecil (46:47.118)
Yeah, yeah, exactly. The kids loved them at the time, so.
Rob Chartrand (46:51.212)
So this is an important question. I mean, you've been at this for a while, but how have you stayed in the game this long? Because I know there's probably times been times where you've just maybe wanted to throw in the towel or do something else, maybe sell insurance or become a garbage man. So it's a good life. It's an easy life. Leave your work at home. How have you stayed in the game this long?
Cecil (47:04.782)
Mm -hmm.
Cecil (47:08.686)
Both of those, yeah, depending on the day.
Cecil (47:27.406)
Great.
Rob Chartrand (47:29.516)
Okay.
Cecil (47:30.766)
Sorry, that was weird. I just got up. Yeah, anyways.
Rob Chartrand (47:37.228)
Got an interruption.
Cecil (47:38.862)
Yeah, that was bizarre. I got it turned off now, so.
Rob Chartrand (47:47.084)
So how have you stayed in the game this long?
Cecil (47:50.574)
it's, I, well supported. I think, I think 80, 80 people all working together and loving each other and supporting each other, is very important. I think, I think, I, I mentioned right in the beginning that God,
God called me very specifically and like I said, I kind of came in kicking and screaming in the ministry and that. And I feel like God needs to be just as obvious in a way to...
for me to know when the game's up. But I still love it. And I think God has continued to kind of like use me in so many different ways. I think the idea that I can, within Youth Unlimited, there's lots of different roles that you can play. And that I...
Cecil (49:12.206)
Yeah, yeah, I think all the way from where I started just working directly with youth all the way up into various leadership roles and that kind of thing. So it's been good. I've told people at various times, my supervisors and area directors, and that's like, if at some point that like, if I'm not picking up,
fact that it's time to move on, just let me know kind of thing, because you can get comfortable and I don't want everyone to be just comfortable in ministry because that's just kind of what I do and that's all I know. I want to be where I'm supposed to be and where God wants me to be as opposed to just where it's comfortable. And up to this point,
Like each time that I kind of check in with God and check in with other people, it's like so far it's like, nope, no, this is still important that you're still here, still doing what you're doing. So.
Rob Chartrand (50:22.348)
So you've got calling, you've got community around you of other people.
Cecil (50:26.798)
Mm -hmm.
Rob Chartrand (50:29.516)
Have you ever had to wrestle with like drift? Like just, I mean, you know, you get away, even in ministry, I mean, ministry is not going to assure that you're gonna stay connected to Christ, right? Like I think young people might think, when I become a pastor, then I know I'm going to become spiritual or I'm gonna, you know what I mean? Like, it's just gonna be automatic. It's not automatic.
Cecil (50:42.958)
Right, yeah, exactly, exactly.
Cecil (50:51.214)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, no, there's there's not automatic at all. In fact, sometimes it can be very different because you're in a sense you're you're now like a professional Christian quote unquote kind of thing. So you can spend your time learning about things instead of directly connecting with God yourself. And you can't replace that. And I think the...
what I find. I'm sure there was times where there was a little bit less, a little bit more kind of drift or whatever, but there's, God is so big and vast and everything and there's always so much more to learn and I feel like I'm still learning and growing theologically and spiritually and in practical ways.
as much as in the first five, 10 years when everything was brand new. But part of it is I try not to get stuck in the rut of, well, this is just kind of what you do. There's times where that's, yeah, it's harder to not get stuck in the rut, I guess. Like, well, it's just easier. It's like, well, I've done this before. I'll just do the same thing again. Right? But can't get away with that very quickly with people, right?
Rob Chartrand (52:06.668)
Yeah. yeah.
Rob Chartrand (52:15.852)
Yeah. Yeah. And you can't get away with it for very long. yeah, there it starts to show and catch up with you.
Cecil (52:22.702)
Well, exactly. Like it's sort of like, like there have been actually times where I feel like, okay, I think I'm feeling drained. I'm feeling kind of like, like lack of enthusiasm because it was, I was trying to do it within my own strength. And then I was just like, it's not about me. I have to just make sure that I'm connected and, and my, my spiritual walk is vibrant and, and God is, God is the one that's prompting and pushing me in.
and holding things, holding the ministry itself, like holding what I'm doing fairly lightly. It's like, if God wants me to stay here, then I will. If God wants me to move on, then it's like, it's time to do. But so far, I've been loving it. And yeah, it's always new things with youth, working with youth, and that kind of crazy stuff. Yeah, so.
Rob Chartrand (53:11.084)
Yeah. Well, I wonder if you, our time is almost gone here, but I wonder if you could share a final word of encouragement for our listeners, our ministry leaders, across the country who are paying attention.
Cecil (53:25.166)
Final word? Sure.
Cecil (53:33.998)
I think the most important thing, the thing that I am more convinced of than ever, 37 and a half years later is that God loves us and it's like the power of love is what changes, not the best, most creative youth ministry or the most innovative or anything. Like the power of love is what changes people.
and I want to be a part of God's expanding kingdom. And I think there's times where it's tempting to kind of be almost like set guardrails, like, well, this is what God wants us to do. And it's like, because they're my personal ideas or maybe my personal strengths.
and skills and that kind of thing. But God is way bigger than even my imagination and being aware of that and just continually celebrating. Like God is huge and wide and vast and so there's so many things that I can learn and grow in. And...
Cecil (54:51.886)
I think there's good in everybody. Sometimes we forget that. It's easy to forget that. And if we look for the good, we will find the good. Sometimes in youth work, specifically working with at -risk kids, and that it's hard, like there's just trouble and they're difficult, they're stressing you out and they're swearing at you and they tell you they don't like you or hate you or whatever.
There's all sorts of things like that, but there is good. And if you look for it, you will find the good that God has created. But the opposite is also true. If you look for the problems, you'll find that. If you're looking for the negative, you'll also find that. So, yeah, yeah.
Rob Chartrand (55:35.308)
Yeah. Yeah. Good word. Good word, brother. Well, hey, thanks for joining us on Church in the North. See, so we'll have to check in with you again in the near future and find out how things are going in your next 10 years of youth ministry. You still got time, man. You still got time.
Cecil (55:38.958)
Yeah. Cool.
Cecil (55:51.567)
Yeah, we'll see. We'll see. Yeah, yeah. I go with five years at a time. So I've never, I never planned on being here this long, but five years at a time. We'll see. We'll see. Awesome.
Rob Chartrand (55:59.436)
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah, so good. All right. Well, bless you, man. Thanks so much for joining us. All right. Talk soon.
Cecil (56:08.942)
Thank you. Okay, see you, Rob.