Rob Chartrand (00:03.101)
Well, we are so excited to have here on Church in the North for our summer series, the Old Youth Guys, Terry Friesen. He's the youth minister at West Portal Church in Saskatoon, Saskatchewan. Terry, welcome to Church in the North.
Terry Friesen (00:17.586)
Thank you, Rob. It's good to be with you. It's good to be with everybody today. It's great.
Rob Chartrand (00:21.469)
Well, thanks for being an old youth guy. And we want to hear about your story. So we want to harken way back to the early days of Terry Friesen and how he ended up in youth ministry. So tell us about, tell us about your journey. How did it all begin?
Terry Friesen (00:37.874)
I mean really growing up in church my whole life so that would be something at least that would have planted seeds obviously and was in a youth ministry when I was a teenager and so then you're hanging out with a youth pastor who's given you lots of great ways of growing with God and
and playing floor hockey until 3 .30 in the night and getting Slurpees at 3 .30 in the night. And you're just, you know, that kind of thing gives you a good grounding as far as what youth ministry might be. And so I don't know, it's happened while I was in high school, just delivering newspapers. I remember thinking up what could be actually.
Rob Chartrand (01:04.349)
Nice.
Terry Friesen (01:22.93)
youth talks in my head and I was like, where are these coming from? I think it was in grade 10 or something. And I started wondering, you know, what it would be like to speak to a group of people or a group of teenagers. And I thought, well, that's, I don't know, that's a strange thing in some ways, but I was kind of fun to play that out in my head and see what I might come up with if I was to say something. But yeah, while in high school, some people said to me, you should become, you should think of becoming a youth pastor, they said.
Rob Chartrand (01:24.861)
Hmm. Hmm.
Terry Friesen (01:51.986)
And I thought, well, I don't know about that. I was a little bit of a shy guy, a little bit of a, you know, awkward social person in some ways. I was a little bit, you know, quieter. And so I wasn't sure if that's the kind of career I wanted, but I put it on my list and I thought, well, I went to Briar Crest after high school and had some, had a couple of years there and had a great time learning about God and going deeper with God. And I loved the classes, loved growing with God in the Bible classes that were there.
But I didn't get a clear sense or a clear call into any kind of vocational ministry of any kind. And I thought, well, I'll just keep growing with God and God can use me however he wants. And so I asked my parents, what do you think I should do with my life? And they were both teachers. So of course they would say,
Hey, we think you'd be a good teacher. So they both, of course, would say that. And so I said, well, OK. So I went, you know, talked to God about it. And then I enrolled in University of Saskatchewan. I got my Bachelor's of Education after four years and was looking for teaching jobs. Meanwhile, I was volunteering, I guess, at West Portal Youth Ministry. I was a volunteer and the youth pastor was a great guy.
Rob Chartrand (02:45.917)
Hmm. Wow.
Rob Chartrand (03:01.821)
Wow, okay.
Terry Friesen (03:13.074)
I got to know and then one Sunday morning someone approached me said, hey, would you like to fill in until we find someone because our youth pastor is leaving. And that was a shock to me. I didn't know he was leaving. And so I said, well, I mean, I care about these teenagers. I want someone to be with them. So yeah, I'll fill in until you find someone. And so that was the summer of 1996 when that happened.
Rob Chartrand (03:41.277)
Wow.
Terry Friesen (03:42.194)
Yeah, so it was a half time to start with, they said, just so you can keep doing your teaching, subbing, teaching temporary jobs on the side. And so I still I did that for four years, youth pastor and then also substitute teaching in the schools. And by the year 2000, they said we could make it full time if we add young adults to your your job description. And I said, well, OK, so.
So now I'm, since the year 2000, I've been overseeing age 12 to 24 in West Portal Church. So that's been my, yeah.
Rob Chartrand (04:18.269)
Wow. So one run in one location. That's, that's incredible. So, so you were substitute teaching in the early days, like how many how many hours a week would you have substitute teacher while you were doing youth stuff?
Terry Friesen (04:23.314)
One run in one location, yeah. It's crazy.
Terry Friesen (04:35.346)
Well, sometimes it would be three days a week or four, three or four. Some weeks you didn't get any anything going, but I was also teaching guitar lessons, so I had something consistent going on on the side as well. And some of them were the teenagers that I had in my youth group. And so it was a great way to connect in a different way through music and to keep something going. And some other people in the church and some people outside the church, actually, too. So there was a little bit of an outside.
Rob Chartrand (04:39.037)
Yeah.
Terry Friesen (05:03.346)
outreach with guitar teaching and I kind of missed that. I don't really, I haven't figured out how to get time for that lately in my life and I'd like to get that back again some point. But yeah, so doing a few other things and I remember pumping gas at one point too. You just try to make it work. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Rob Chartrand (05:09.725)
Wow.
Rob Chartrand (05:18.109)
Yeah, yeah, I remember my early days of youth ministry. I was bivocational. Yeah. In a smaller church, it couldn't afford it. And then it grew and I grew into the role. Yeah. So you you are an anomaly. Do you know that? Like, I mean, I have all the old youth guys, I don't know any of them. I don't think who've been in the same place. Maybe one other No, I think you might be the only one who's so we need to like, I don't know, sell you to a lab and have them study you because
Terry Friesen (05:27.922)
Yeah, exactly.
Rob Chartrand (05:48.125)
You're an anomaly, man. That's amazing. Yeah. So okay, so somewhere along the way you got married and had kids. So talk to me about that. How long into ministry were you before you before you got married?
Terry Friesen (05:50.738)
interesting.
Terry Friesen (06:03.666)
Well, yeah, first I was married and Holly and I have been married since 1995. So I was married just the year before the year before they asked me to fill in this role. And along the way we had three kids and they're all young adults now. So but yeah, yeah. So now all of a sudden, yeah, leaving them behind sometimes, you know.
Rob Chartrand (06:13.373)
before.
Rob Chartrand (06:25.853)
Yeah, you're empty nester now.
Rob Chartrand (06:31.389)
Yeah, yeah. So were your kids ever in in your student ministry? Were you ever their youth pastor?
Terry Friesen (06:36.914)
Yes, that was the little bit of the scary thing, at least heading into it. I thought, what is that going to be like? And should I keep doing this job while they become a teenager or should I give them a little more space or should I be that involved with their life? And they...
Rob Chartrand (06:46.557)
Hmm.
Terry Friesen (06:54.258)
They seem to be okay with the idea going in. I have a good team of volunteers, so it wasn't just me yakking in their small groups or checking in with them all the time. It was actually a lot of other people speaking into their life, and I'm very thankful for that. So for me to have a team of people to walk with them, my kids, all three of them, would say they loved being in youth ministry with me, and I would say I loved them.
Rob Chartrand (07:11.613)
Hmm.
Rob Chartrand (07:20.157)
Hmm.
Terry Friesen (07:23.602)
being with me also. Like I miss it. I really miss them now. I feel like there's something very big that's missing, that they're not part of it. I have to kind of recalibrate and say, okay, what am I doing now? How am I doing? Why am I doing this? And get that back. I think I need to just to say, am I going to keep doing this now? But now that they're through. But what's interesting is that two out of three are now...
Rob Chartrand (07:25.533)
Yeah.
Rob Chartrand (07:38.717)
Yeah, yeah.
Terry Friesen (07:49.586)
Youth volunteers with me so they're so so I can't get rid of them. I guess they're they're not gonna They're not gonna really be leaving and I think that is great. So that's a blessing a huge blessing I'm thankful for that not not everyone has that experience where it is a great thing to have your dad as a youth pastor or something or as a pastor of Even being a pastor's kid or something, but my family seems to have had a great time with that and fuel
Rob Chartrand (07:54.493)
That's awesome. Yeah, that's so awesome. Yeah.
Rob Chartrand (08:08.573)
Yeah.
Terry Friesen (08:18.578)
Yeah, all three are still part of West Portal Church in the Young Adults program now too, so I'm just very grateful.
Rob Chartrand (08:21.949)
Mm.
So what's the age difference between your oldest and your youngest?
Terry Friesen (08:29.042)
Five years difference. So yeah, every two years we had we had almost like almost like clockwork. We were able to have have kids every every two years and two months and two days and two hours. I was telling you. Yeah, yeah.
Rob Chartrand (08:31.197)
Okay.
Rob Chartrand (08:36.925)
Yeah.
well done. Well done. Yeah. Glad that worked out for you. So so so the what what what grade do they start in your youth ministry do do young people? Okay, so there's a five year spread there and then another five years. So at least like 10 years or more you had one of your own kids in the youth ministry. Is that right? Yeah.
Terry Friesen (08:48.274)
Seven. Yeah, starting with grade seven. Yeah.
Terry Friesen (09:00.146)
Right, yep, so for probably about a decade, yeah, I had at least one of my kids involved, yeah.
Rob Chartrand (09:05.597)
Yeah, yeah, so that's a lot. That's a large chunk of your youth ministry leadership with your own kids in there. And I'm sure when they were children, I know when my kids were children, they had their faces pressed against the glass. They weren't old enough yet to be in youth ministry kind of thing. And but we're longing to be in it. But they still my kids, you know, they still hung around youth all the time because, you know, my family was somewhat integrated in the life of the church. And so.
Terry Friesen (09:19.058)
Yeah. Yeah.
Terry Friesen (09:31.538)
They loved coming with me sometimes. If we went on a retreat, I'd try to bring my family along and just to be part of it. They just thought that was part of the fun and part of it. That was the biggest thing for me too, is to look for ways to bring my family along and to have them be part of it. Because I felt like I was saying goodbye to them a whole lot. When you have evening ministry and weekend ministries, sometimes you're always saying goodbye to them. Sometimes mission trips or whatever. It just seems like...
Rob Chartrand (09:35.261)
Yeah. Yeah.
Rob Chartrand (09:45.853)
Hmm.
Terry Friesen (10:01.49)
That was the hardest thing in some ways. The biggest challenge for me was when they were small, just always leaving them behind. So you felt like you were never home enough and you were never at church enough and it just felt like you're kind of torn between the two. I would say that would be probably my hardest decade that way. So yeah.
Rob Chartrand (10:19.069)
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, for sure. The nice thing about the pastoral role though is you do have a lot of flexibility as well in your schedule sometimes, right? Long hours, but lots of flexibility. So you can, you can slip out to kids games and you can, you know, unless it's a youth night, I mean, then there's a challenge, but otherwise.
Terry Friesen (10:27.986)
Yes. Yeah.
Terry Friesen (10:33.586)
Yeah. Yeah. But even daytime hours, yeah, you can jump in on a field trip or something like that. Join them with what they're doing. And that's been a blessing. Yeah. Get to see all the assemblies and all the band concerts, whether they're in tune or not. You get to enjoy all of the music. Yeah. Right. Right.
Rob Chartrand (10:45.949)
Yeah, totally.
Rob Chartrand (10:53.501)
Yeah, that's right. Especially if you're a guitar teacher, I mean, you're probably, yeah, yeah. So talk to me about your current youth ministry. How would you describe it? How would you describe maybe the part of Saskatoon you're reaching or how and how is that reflected in your youth ministry? What's it look like?
Terry Friesen (11:17.554)
Yeah, I would say West Portal Church, I would describe it as a church. Average attendance on Sunday would be 400 people and Saskatoon itself is 240 ,000. So, but if you look at where people, who people are in West Portal Church, what makes up West Portal is people from all over Saskatoon and outside of Saskatoon, the surrounding towns, some people drive.
Rob Chartrand (11:37.605)
Okay.
Terry Friesen (11:41.554)
you know an hour to get to to be part of our church and youth ministry, so I actually have youth from different schools Completely different schools. They don't really know each other from school and that's
Rob Chartrand (11:54.653)
Mm -hmm.
Terry Friesen (11:55.346)
maybe a unique thing for, at least when I talk to other youth pastors, that's kind of a unique thing to say that I have about 10 or 11 different high schools that I connect with. And it's like, yeah, they're all over the place. They're scattered everywhere. So really their connection with each other is only at West Portal Church. Like this is the only way they know each other. So most people would describe West Portal as a blue collar church. So the kids would...
Rob Chartrand (12:10.717)
Yeah. Yeah.
Terry Friesen (12:24.146)
Yeah, we almost all, you would say, in the middle class. But sometimes we have some kids, some families, who are in the poverty levels. So we're trying to, but yeah, for the most part, I would say the youth that I'm connecting with are from fairly grounded, stable families with a mom and dad at home. And so my biggest challenge is just to help them connect with each other, to get to know each other.
Rob Chartrand (12:51.613)
Hmm.
Terry Friesen (12:52.722)
and then also to help them understand that Jesus is calling them to surrender everything to him. Just like most of Canada, I find our God is almost always comfort. I would say that's really our God as Canada. I think that's what we strive for and what we're aimed for with our whole life is just comfort. And so to help the youth understand that there's something bigger to this life, that...
Rob Chartrand (13:07.997)
Yeah.
Terry Friesen (13:20.914)
It's not just about providing your comforts. It's about surrendering to Jesus and allowing him to provide your needs and allowing him to help you to connect with others who need the Lord. And we all need the Lord. So it's just a constant. I would say that's my biggest struggle is just sometimes motivating the youth to go beyond their comfort. And I don't think that's an uncommon struggle. But I think that's just what I would say from...
Rob Chartrand (13:34.845)
Hmm.
Rob Chartrand (13:43.933)
Hmm.
Yeah.
Terry Friesen (13:49.522)
from my context, that's probably what I would constantly be working with.
Rob Chartrand (13:55.646)
Yeah, yeah. So what's your week breakdown like you do like Friday nights, Wednesday nights, Sunday morning, Sunday nights? What's what's that look like for you guys?
Terry Friesen (14:03.346)
still a desire for Sunday school in this church. So we're like, okay, they call it something different, but like connection time or something like that, but Sunday connection time, but it's still really what people used to do and used to have. And I think it's more parents that are saying, yeah, we think this is still important. So get the kids into Sunday school. But something we've worked with is,
Rob Chartrand (14:07.613)
Okay, wow.
Rob Chartrand (14:13.821)
Yep.
Terry Friesen (14:31.762)
is actually a value of having all family members, all generations in this service as well. So we feel like we've been pushing that for the last 10 years, I would say. And I think we've been seeing the benefits of that, where the kids actually understand they're part of an intergenerational family, not just their peers, they're not just there with their friends, they're actually seeing.
Rob Chartrand (14:37.597)
No.
Rob Chartrand (14:42.173)
Okay.
Terry Friesen (14:54.066)
you know, Millie and some of these older people in the church coming after them and saying how they're doing and giving them hugs. And that's just something very important that I think has started to become a flavor of Westportal. But yeah, we meet Thursday nights as a as a as a youth night. And I tried I tried to shift it to Friday, tried really hard, but they had always done it on a Thursday before I started. And.
Rob Chartrand (15:08.125)
Hmm.
Okay.
Terry Friesen (15:20.05)
When I tried it on Friday, I got the pushback and it also, kids just, it just didn't work. Their schedules or family time or priorities or something like that. So I went back to the Thursday thing and that's where I've been now for most of the time. And I do have junior high and senior high together on the same night, try to keep them separated.
Rob Chartrand (15:30.173)
Yeah. Yeah.
Rob Chartrand (15:36.957)
Yeah.
Terry Friesen (15:44.594)
So, but they see each other and I think that's helped for the transitions when they when they move from junior high to senior high. There's not it's not quite as scary Yeah, it's it's a little bit more familiar. So so I found that there's been a benefit there that the downside is it's hard to get the Senior high students involved because they want I want them to be part of their own Connecting and their own ministry that they're part of so it I used to be able to kind of have them I had separate nights and then I'd have a
Rob Chartrand (15:49.053)
Mm -hmm.
Rob Chartrand (15:56.125)
Yeah.
Terry Friesen (16:14.002)
had been involved, but now it's, that's the only downside I would see, but the pluses are definitely a lot of them. There's a lot of mentoring and so, yeah. Yep. Mm -hmm. Yep.
Rob Chartrand (16:21.309)
Well, and then it's one last night the year out having to plan for it too, right? Like, I mean, that's a lot to do. You can only really do that if you hire a junior high youth pastor as well, right? So yeah, that's a lot of work.
Terry Friesen (16:31.41)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, we did do a yeah, a separate night for a while and I had some some great like what call them super volunteers, you know, running those and and they did great with that. But then I think they felt like they wanted to be connected a bit more with with the Thursday nights. And so I said, well, like if you if we can do this so that they still have their own area, they still have their own things that they're doing, ways of connecting with each other, I think then that doesn't scare off the
Rob Chartrand (16:41.661)
Mm -hmm.
Terry Friesen (17:01.522)
the grade 11 and 12s as much. So yeah, it's good.
Rob Chartrand (17:04.413)
Yeah, totally. Yeah. Well, obviously, there's there's some changes you've seen. But I want to ask you, how have you seen youth ministry change over the years? I mean, if you think back to the early days, as funny that you said, you know, you used to have a paper route and kids these days, like, what's a newspaper? What is this newspaper you speak of? All right. Who has a paper route anymore?
Terry Friesen (17:14.162)
Mm -hmm.
Terry Friesen (17:21.458)
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, exactly. That's so true. Yeah, yeah, it's a little bit. Yeah.
Rob Chartrand (17:31.677)
you know, so yeah, what's what's what has been changing about youth ministry? What's been changing about young people?
Terry Friesen (17:38.546)
Good questions, good questions. Sometimes I've responded by saying, I don't know if much has changed, but then, you know, as I'm thinking about it with others, I'm realizing, yeah, actually there's some things that have changed quite a bit. We used to constantly fill up a bunch of cars and drive around, you know, almost every time in a whole pile of cars. That was just how that started in the 90s, I'll say. You know, now we take one bus.
You know, we go somewhere, it's always on one bus. I think it was the safety of the students. Eventually it became too much of a risk and, you know, too many student drivers on the road. And then, yeah, I think it was just, you know, the church saying, okay, enough, enough risking everybody out there. So many drivers. I used to hang out at their high schools in a black car with tinted windows and they would come to me.
Rob Chartrand (18:27.549)
Mm -hmm.
Terry Friesen (18:37.363)
and they would come into my car and I would give them, we would have prayer and donuts. And it was such a cool thing. They would love doing that. But I mean, you can't even think of something like that these days in front of a school. Like you just can't. Well, yeah, if they could see in the car, they'd see a guy with sunglasses and long hair and yeah, who is this? What's going on here? So, but that was.
Rob Chartrand (18:49.885)
Well, and our listeners don't notice you have really, really long hair as well, right? So you've got the, yeah. Yeah, yeah. This is a dealer selling them something.
Terry Friesen (19:02.834)
Yeah, and it was something I thought was cool. Everybody thought was cool. Let's have prayer and donuts before school. But it was just something you can't do. So some things have changed that way where you just can't do the same way. Parents would drop their kids off and drive away. I never really saw the parents when I first started. It was and the youth didn't even want their parents involved. So that's something that has changed as well because now I have.
Rob Chartrand (19:08.573)
Ha ha.
Terry Friesen (19:30.802)
almost in every spot I can see parents involved with the ministry or wondering what we're doing. I have to have way more communication, I would say, which is a good thing. So it's a good thing. And I'm thinking of myself as a parent, too. I love Star Wars and my kids love Star Wars. And so when we go to see Star Wars, we just all love going to see Star Wars. But that wasn't the same when I grew up. My parents would maybe...
reluctantly take me to Star Wars, but they wouldn't maybe want to be there, you know, and now it's a, this is a very different thing when I have a ski trip or something like that. A lot of parents are asking, hey, can I sign up too? And so, and we, and I just say, well, as long as your kid is okay with it, but I've never heard, recently, I haven't heard of any kids that have a problem with their parents being along for the ride. So that's something that I never thought would ever happen. I thought youth ministry was about having something,
Rob Chartrand (20:04.605)
Right. Right.
Terry Friesen (20:28.914)
where it's just for the youth and they wouldn't want their parents involved. And so we do something separate and now it's much more of a family ministry in that way, just naturally. So, which is great. But yeah, they seem to be more protected. That's the other side of it. They seem to be more protected and sheltered by their parents. And I don't see that as a totally a bad thing. I think parents are much more involved in their kids' lives now. But they have less experience in the world then, like less experience on their own.
Rob Chartrand (20:35.237)
Hmm. Yeah. Yeah.
Terry Friesen (20:58.738)
And they know lots, they've got so many things they are learning, the global topics that they can find out every day. They're checking out things that are happening in the world. So they know so many things, but they seem to be a little more delayed socially, I'll just say. Like they haven't had as much experience talking with adults, so they don't always know how to express themselves. So I would say that's something that's changing now from what I used to see was they seem to be almost a little bit more like adults.
Rob Chartrand (21:15.229)
Yeah.
Terry Friesen (21:28.274)
in a young form and now they seem more like kids and I know maybe partly to it has to do with my age but I think that it just is that way and I think all parents agree with me that that is how it is but a couple more things just recently we're seeing the COVID delay is what I'm thinking of it as and I've talked to other youth ministry leaders about this and
Rob Chartrand (21:33.149)
In an old form, yeah.
Rob Chartrand (21:43.037)
Mm -hmm.
Rob Chartrand (21:48.925)
Hmm.
Terry Friesen (21:54.194)
And they're all agreeing that it seems like great seven eights are more like great fives and sixes at the moment, the way they respond and the way they they social and socially interact. So high school is more like junior high. Young adults are more like high school. So and at the same time, I'm seeing even with these delays or these more childlike tendencies that I see with the youth, I'm seeing them want to have a deeper understanding of just trusting God with their life like a child.
And it's a childlike faith, and I see that more now than I ever have. So that's a valuable thing. It's a precious thing. And we've got to be careful that we're protecting that and helping that to grow and then also helping them understand how to live in this world that is sometimes hostile and not so friendly. So yeah, so even with attention deficit, maybe is on the rise.
Rob Chartrand (22:23.005)
Hmm.
Terry Friesen (22:52.21)
but it's challenging, but at the same time, they seem to be serious about wanting to still go deep, even if they can hardly, even if they admit that their attention is hard to keep them on track with things, but they still want to be part of it. Yeah, I would say that's some of the things that I've seen is changing in the last, even the last.
Rob Chartrand (23:14.725)
Yeah.
Terry Friesen (23:19.346)
few years I've seen of some of these things just starting to change in that way. Higher anxiety, of course, we've talked about that with so many things, but I always thought that was a strange thing to see. And now I see that as a normal thing that could be there for a teenager. So it's something I thought was weird when I started. If someone had high anxiety, I thought there's something really wrong with them. And so now I have to understand that, yeah, this is a common thing. So.
Rob Chartrand (23:25.437)
Yeah. Yeah.
Rob Chartrand (23:47.069)
Yeah. Well, you know, I'm thinking about your youth ministry in your context and you were talking about, you know, 10 different schools represented in your youth ministry. And that's not an uncommon thing if you're in a larger center or if you're in a more of a, say, a suburban or a, you know, center of a larger city. Like, I mean, that's, you're going to have kids coming in from all over because they're just commuters. I mean, that's, that's pretty normal for them, you know? But how do you, you know, how do you keep them all connected?
Terry Friesen (23:55.538)
Mm -hmm.
Terry Friesen (24:10.458)
Yep. Mm -hmm.
Rob Chartrand (24:16.381)
Like that's a challenge, right? I mean, if they're, cause they're not brushing shoulders with each other in high school. So you've got this really, this mixed bag of kids coming together. And, and so I think one of the obvious answers to that today is, well, social media, like they're all, they're all can connect kind of through social media or digitally in some way. Does that work in your ministry? Like, is that something that's changed?
Terry Friesen (24:29.97)
Mm -hmm.
Terry Friesen (24:41.138)
Well, I mean, it sure helped during COVID. That was something that we had never thought of really doing with this group until then. And at that point, you just know that that's the only way you can connect or one of the main ways you can connect. And I've talked to some of them recently about those experiences and they were like, yeah, it wasn't very fun. But they said it was still important to them to connect even through the digital.
format. And so now what I'm seeing, something different is actually the small group leaders or my volunteer leaders, this is a normal thing to see now, is that they will set up groups online and they'll talk during the week and discuss how things are going, if they've made some Bible reading goals together or just wanting to have accountability for whatever or just checking in.
I see that far more now. It's a normal thing and the youth actually, yeah, they love that. And I think that that's actually very effective as far as outside of the youth ministry night or the times you see them during the week. You can know, they can know that you're thinking about them on a random Tuesday morning or whatever. So that is very effective. Yeah. It's been great to see.
Rob Chartrand (25:46.973)
Hmm.
Rob Chartrand (26:00.189)
Yeah, yeah. So, so what hasn't changed about young people? I mean, what we think, you know, there's so many changes that are happening, but yet so much remains the same, like what remains the same.
Terry Friesen (26:15.314)
Yeah, some of the core things are definitely exactly the same as when I started in 1996. I would say their desire to belong, that they want to be part of a youth group that actually includes them, that keeps them connected. And to be part of a church family, it's bigger than a youth group thing. It's actually, I'm starting to realize they want to be part of a church family. It's not just a church that they attend.
Rob Chartrand (26:22.013)
Yeah.
Terry Friesen (26:41.202)
They wanna be part of something that feels like a family. So there's a desire to belong and they have that desire. They have the desire in their life for the life to have meaning. They wanna have that. That's been all the way along. They don't wanna have a meaningless life. They wanna, yeah, they wanna have fun. That desire for fun has not gone away.
You know, and it's amazing how much that helps and it's something as I got I've gotten older I've started to realize I need to work on that because sometimes I'm more concerned about other things or I'm more I'm actually stressed out about other things that are happening or not happening and I need to remember yeah, we need to remember that there's a fun side to this like just have a great time
being together, be thankful to God for the opportunity to be together. So their desire for fun, but also the deeper connections I mentioned. So we, connections with each other, but also connections with God. I've seen that.
Rob Chartrand (27:32.253)
Hmm.
Terry Friesen (27:43.666)
continuing all the way through. And so we call that serious fun. That's how we describe it. West Portal, we have serious fun. So we're gonna have fun, but we're gonna have those moments of going deeper with God. And that's like, we just don't wanna miss that. We don't want God to be missing from what we're doing either. So we wanna make sure that both are present. And I think that's a winning combination. And I would say, yeah, just the desire, the youth always have had the desire for someone.
Rob Chartrand (27:52.061)
Awesome.
Terry Friesen (28:13.17)
to care about their life. Like how are they doing and how are they experiencing life and every personality is different, every kid is different. And so to have other adults in their life that actually care about them, that's big. And so those are the things that I would say are the core things that I've seen all the way along and very, yeah, nothing is, none of those have changed in that way. So that, yeah, totally.
Rob Chartrand (28:35.325)
Yeah.
Rob Chartrand (28:39.613)
And you could have said that in 1996. These are the basics guys. This is it. Yeah. So, so let's go back to 1996. Yeah. You know, those first five years, what would your 2024 self say to your 1996 self? what advice would you give yourself?
Terry Friesen (28:44.53)
Yep, yep, yep, yep, and yeah, same thing, yep.
Terry Friesen (28:51.834)
Yep.
Terry Friesen (29:00.622)
Wow. Yeah, that's a good question. Actually, quite a few things come to mind. This is a big one. I think this is a big one. If I could go back and talk to my younger self, especially when I didn't know if I'd be doing this for my whole life or my career. At that point, I was filling in until I found someone. And eventually...
Rob Chartrand (29:09.949)
Yeah.
Rob Chartrand (29:25.125)
When did that stop?
Terry Friesen (29:27.698)
I don't know, I still can't quite figure out when that stopped. Like I said, I think there was a meeting at one point where I was told to get out of the room. And then I came back in and they were all applauding. And I think, you know, then I thought, I think that was the one where they made me permanent, I think. So I took that as a positive and kept going from there and it's been great. So yeah, so advice for my younger self.
Rob Chartrand (29:45.469)
Okay.
Terry Friesen (29:57.81)
When I first started, I would say, actually book in time with God, daily, weekly, monthly, special times, just to be with God and be alone with Him. Once a month now, I take a day, I've had to learn this, that I have to take a day and just walk somewhere else and just walk with God.
Rob Chartrand (30:03.005)
Hmm.
Rob Chartrand (30:20.541)
Mm. Yeah.
Terry Friesen (30:20.658)
Get outside or whatever and just take a day and not feel guilty about taking a day to just be with God. I felt like I couldn't do that back then. I felt like I wasn't working then or I'm getting paid to go walk and pray. And you know, that seems weird. So I didn't do it. And I make sure that's in there now. Even it's hard to give up a day, but it's like I need that with my soul needs that, you know, so and.
Rob Chartrand (30:34.045)
Right. Right.
Rob Chartrand (30:43.741)
Yeah.
Hmm.
Terry Friesen (30:49.106)
Yeah, I wish I had done that sooner in my career for sure. And so another thing, there will be differing opinions no matter what you do. Like a politician, someone will always disagree with you. So I wish my younger self would have learned that a little quicker, that I don't have to take it so personally if someone disagrees with me because we all have different opinions. And to learn to listen to all opinions, that's a good thing. Learn to...
Rob Chartrand (30:59.133)
Hmm.
Rob Chartrand (31:15.581)
Hmm.
Terry Friesen (31:17.97)
Dialogue with the people understand where they're coming from and explaining my my feelings and my thoughts as well Just to know that conflict and disagreement will happen and it means Yeah, it means a lot actually to talk talk it through with somebody instead of just ignoring them or just Cutting them off to try and explain my my opinion or my my way of doing things. Yeah, it's much it just
Rob Chartrand (31:42.045)
Yeah. Yeah.
Terry Friesen (31:45.522)
So many good things happen when you actually take time to just talk with people. It's so much better. Another one, find an outside mentor, a confidential mentor, someone who's outside. I say outside of your church because I started to realize I can't really talk about the struggles within the church with someone who's actually in my church because then they're pulled into the same issues that maybe I'm dealing with. So I, when I found that I could do this,
Rob Chartrand (31:50.493)
Hmm.
Terry Friesen (32:14.578)
with somebody outside my church, that actually was a huge help for me.
Rob Chartrand (32:18.621)
So when did you finally start putting that into practice?
Terry Friesen (32:21.722)
Hmm. Yeah, probably about 13 years into my ministry. Yeah, a little too long. Yeah. If you can know that you can do that or you should have somebody outside, I think that's something that's a great thing to have set up. Yeah, going in. Staff meeting, I was accused of not speaking my voice or speaking my opinion. I'm a slow processor. It takes time for me to think things through. And so I didn't always have an immediate opinion about things, but...
Rob Chartrand (32:27.709)
Wow, yeah, yeah
Rob Chartrand (32:49.917)
Hmm.
Terry Friesen (32:50.419)
I've learned that it is good to voice at least my current opinion or my current thoughts. If it's not totally thought through, yeah, at least put something out there and try to make it. I have to struggle with making things positive sometimes. But one thing, another thing is don't be afraid of what people think of you. Prioritize God, family and your ministry leaders and the rest. Don't worry so much. Just...
Do your best. Accountability for one -to -ones. I didn't know in my younger years, like I said, the black car with the prayer and donuts. I just never, I never even thought that that could be something bad. And it's just, I've learned over the years, it is actually so much better when I bring in one of my volunteers and we hang out with even one teenager or a couple of teenagers or whatever it is. We have a great time, but I'm also bringing in a volunteer and helping them.
Rob Chartrand (33:39.069)
Yeah.
Terry Friesen (33:49.234)
be part of the real ministry, you know, like when you're one, you know, we're more personal with the youth that that part is just exciting to me now is actually to bring people along with me instead of me thinking I have to do it all myself. And and not only that, but the accountability is built in them. You don't have to you don't have to think about that so much. So, yeah, you're not alone with these kids. Yeah. And if you're married, I said book in time with with God regularly. Same thing with your wife.
Rob Chartrand (33:51.069)
Hmm.
Terry Friesen (34:17.458)
That's something I did learn from my senior pastor that was on staff when I started. He said you have to make sure you have time. Something every day where you know you're gonna talk to your wife. You know that every week there's somewhere that's time that's gonna be set aside. Monthly there's something special to look forward to. So I'm glad he guided me with that. But I would say for my younger self, listen to this guy. He's...
this is going to save your marriage when things are a little bit more struggle for time and energy and your wife is thinking, well, I don't know if, like, am I married to him? I don't know. He's always somewhere. He's got so many other people emotionally connected to him and it's tough. So yeah, one other thing my senior pastor gave me was he said, you must, so in there, you must do
Rob Chartrand (34:53.629)
Yeah, yeah.
Rob Chartrand (35:03.357)
Yeah. Yeah.
Rob Chartrand (35:08.157)
Yeah.
Terry Friesen (35:16.37)
Planning retreats. He said planning retreats. So he said once one week per term You take the week and you you just do planning you evaluate how things have gone and you look to the next three months and I would say that's one of the things that has definitely saved me along the way. So yeah, yeah Yep. Yeah
Rob Chartrand (35:19.293)
Hmm.
Rob Chartrand (35:33.213)
Yeah, for sure. So I have a question. You've been there a long time. Have you seen your senior pastor change while you've been there? How many times? Wow. So your boss. So are you older than your your boss? Okay.
Terry Friesen (35:41.234)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm only on the third one. Yeah. Current one, yes. Yeah, yeah. This is the first one that I'm older than him, but I think he's wiser than me. So he's got, yeah. So I'm always asking him for advice on when I have any challenges with people or situations. I really value his opinion. So we're almost the same age, so it's pretty cool.
Rob Chartrand (35:56.349)
Okay.
Rob Chartrand (36:07.965)
Wow.
Terry Friesen (36:10.482)
I'm just a couple years ahead of him. And both of us have been at West Portal since, yeah, he was in 97. So we've been here almost the whole time together. And yeah, he had worship pastor and then associate and all of a sudden, yeah, he's the lead pastor. So it's a very good relationship, good friendship, and I'm very thankful for that. That's been great.
Rob Chartrand (36:21.661)
Okay, so he was like the associate then or something and then
Rob Chartrand (36:34.749)
Yeah, yeah, that's key.
Terry Friesen (36:36.498)
So currently there's a real safe place for me to come in and just say, here's what I'm thinking or here's what I'm dealing with or here's whatever, and he's got my back and yeah. But he's also able to challenge me too, which he gives me such a different perspective that I feel almost offended at first and then, and then I get over that and I'm like, yeah, no, I need to listen, I need to understand this. So yeah, yeah, no.
Rob Chartrand (36:46.941)
Yeah. Yeah.
Rob Chartrand (36:56.837)
Hmm.
Rob Chartrand (37:01.405)
Yeah. That's great. So, I mean, your role has obviously changed over the years in youth ministry. I mean, when you first started, you're just a few years older than your youth. So you're like, you're like the older brother kind of, right? But now, you know, there's a season there you're moving to maybe like more like an uncle or something like that. And now you're closer to being a grandparent, right? So, I mean, like how have you seen that change over the years, your relationship with the youth ministry?
Terry Friesen (37:14.482)
Yep. Yep.
Terry Friesen (37:19.602)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Terry Friesen (37:28.05)
Yeah, it seems like it's always been very, very much the same because I, when I started, they saw me as old already. They thought I was pretty old, even though I was only, yeah, five years older maybe or six years older, but they already saw me as definitely not their peers. So I was able to get past that pretty easily. But yeah, when I now have teenagers in the youth ministry,
who say to me, my mom was in here when she was in grade eight with you. So I'm starting to get that. So when I get the person coming in and say, my grandma was in your youth ministry when she was in grade eight, I'll have to be like, okay, I really need to think about this now. So that's kind of my next stage that I'm waiting for. That age.
Rob Chartrand (38:01.597)
That's awesome.
Rob Chartrand (38:19.645)
Yeah. But I mean, hasn't your focus changed though more? Like I think about the early part of my ministry, I was more about building, creating, you know what I mean? And I was, you know, I was about...
Terry Friesen (38:25.362)
Mm -hmm.
Rob Chartrand (38:33.181)
establishing my ministry kind of thing. But now I'm on the other side, I'm more about legacy and seeing other people grow and excel. And I mean, I still did that in the beginning, but now more than ever, I find I'm, I'm about reaching to the younger generation and trying to release them. Is that, do you know what I'm saying? Like,
Terry Friesen (38:38.93)
Mm -hmm.
Terry Friesen (38:51.538)
Yep, and even parents, like I'm older than most of the parents that are part of the youth ministry now. So I used to not know what to say to parents and now I feel like I have, well, at least they're listening at least when I talk. So yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Rob Chartrand (38:57.213)
Mm. Mm.
Rob Chartrand (39:03.005)
Right. Right.
Rob Chartrand (39:10.653)
Yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah, you remember in your 20s when they would ask you parenting advice or they never asked you parenting advice, but when they did, you're like, you're asking me. I don't know.
Terry Friesen (39:20.434)
what do I do with my kid?" And I was like, yeah, let's pray. And definitely pray is good, but yeah, there's other things we can talk about too, you know. No, no, we were, that was it. That was it. You just had to come up with it. So.
Rob Chartrand (39:23.197)
Yeah.
Rob Chartrand (39:28.989)
And there was no Google back then, right? You couldn't look it up.
Rob Chartrand (39:35.965)
Yeah, just trust in the Lord for wisdom and read his word and actually get by pretty good with that. That's right. I mean, like the wisdom of scripture is far better than Google. Way better.
Terry Friesen (39:43.314)
Yeah, that is exactly it. That is exactly.
Terry Friesen (39:49.874)
Yep, yep, it's grounded.
Rob Chartrand (39:52.765)
So besides your stalking in the parking lot with your dark tinted windows, do you have any big youth ministry fail stories you want to share?
Terry Friesen (40:02.738)
You know, I don't think, some people have asked me that. I don't see a big one, but a lot of little ones, especially when planning games, I often forget one little thing that just everything unravels. And it's just like the game is so lame by the end that it's just, so I like to get other people planning games for me because it's just, they seem to work way better. But I think I come up with one and it's just perfect. And like I had something called Dyson Drive way back in the beginning of...
Rob Chartrand (40:08.317)
Okay.
Rob Chartrand (40:18.973)
Ha ha.
Terry Friesen (40:31.506)
my youth ministry years, and I thought, this is a great game, it's simple. All you do is roll a dice, it'll tell you to go left at the next intersection or right or keep driving straight ahead, depending what the dice says. And we're gonna do that for an hour. You give exactly an hour to get to McDonald's and you meet at a certain time in McDonald's and we'll see how many kilometers you've driven. And so I thought, this can't go wrong. But somebody, I don't know how they did it, but they ended up on the highway.
Rob Chartrand (40:42.333)
Ha ha.
Terry Friesen (40:59.41)
And so they were halfway to Regina. So by that, we didn't know where they were. And yeah, that was probably the... Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. And then you end up on some farm or whatever, do not cross. But yeah, yeah, yeah, we are. And yet they ended up heading on the south end of the city and heading to Regina. So I don't know.
Rob Chartrand (41:07.517)
the next intersection is a grid road. Yeah. Well, you're at West portal. You're in the West portal of the city, right? So you're close to the edge. Yeah, okay.
Terry Friesen (41:27.378)
But they were very late coming back and they were all upset because they had so many kilometers, but they were they were late. So they were disqualified. But they thought they were the sure winners. And I was just like, sorry. Like the rule was you had to be there by 830. So like so. But I mean, it was a it was one of those things that are after that. I remember doing a few more of those and then just saying, OK, but if you if you reach the city limits, you must turn around.
Rob Chartrand (41:41.821)
They'll never forget that night.
Terry Friesen (41:53.49)
So you're not gonna head on the highway and try and rack up your kilometers. Yeah, that way. Yeah.
Rob Chartrand (41:58.429)
Wow. And there was, again, cell phones back then, very few people had a cell phone kind of thing. So you didn't know where they were. Yeah.
Terry Friesen (42:03.954)
Yeah, we had no idea where they were. Yeah, we had no idea what happened to them. So like for an hour, we didn't know what happened. But yeah, there's like little things that happened along the way, you know, with people climbing on the roof or fires in the parking lot or whatever. We only had the fire trucks come once and that was actually the last in this last year. And it was just because we had too much fog going on for one of our dance parties. So yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So.
Rob Chartrand (42:09.085)
Ha ha ha ha ha.
Rob Chartrand (42:26.429)
Yeah, smoke machines can set off the fire alarms. Yeah.
Terry Friesen (42:32.242)
Thankfully, it wasn't too much damage for anything. They still had church on Sunday and nobody even knew that the fire trucks were there. So that was good. So no big fail stories to tell you.
Rob Chartrand (42:42.205)
Yeah, yeah. Well, and probably I don't know about you, but I mean, there's there's there's the failure of ministry of like, saying the wrong thing or getting into a conflict that never should have happened all of those fail stories as well that are annual occurrences.
Terry Friesen (42:54.77)
Yep. Yep. Yeah, my biggest regret would be losing my cool with some of the youth, whether we're playing hockey or you're just, I don't know, we're on a mission trip. It always happens when you're so tired by the seventh day or something and somebody, you just snap at somebody for stupid reason. And you just, those are the ones that I regret the most. Those are the ones, those are the fail stories that I regret the most. It's the personal ones that I have to go and...
I have to apologize to this kid and you're just like, man, I mean, I felt justified in being angry at the moment, but you look back and you're like, that was dumb. Yeah, so, no, yeah, exactly, exactly.
Rob Chartrand (43:29.917)
Yeah. Yeah.
Rob Chartrand (43:34.973)
Yeah, it wasn't worth it, right? Wasn't worth it. Yeah. Yeah. So you've been at this a while. How have you been at it this long? What have you been doing to stay in the game this long? How's that happened?
Terry Friesen (43:41.362)
Yeah.
Terry Friesen (43:48.658)
Hmm.
Terry Friesen (43:52.946)
Well, by God's grace for sure. It's great. I mentioned the staff at West Portal Church, the staff that I'm a part of, the rest of the ministry staff, but also a good volunteer youth team to see both of those things. I feel supported in both ways and with the parents that are here. I think that there is a...
Rob Chartrand (43:57.213)
Mm -hmm.
Terry Friesen (44:18.514)
a desire for their kids, they have a desire for their kids to be involved. And so there's like, there's, you know, there's a lot of encouragement for making it happen. And, you know, I talked to somebody who has three little kids right now and they just said, I hope that you'll still be youth pastor when my kids are teenagers. And I was like, well,
The way this goes, the way this goes, it seems like I could almost say, yeah, that's no problem. But, you know, I'm sure I'll be here. But I don't, there's nothing's for sure. But it's just here's some of the things that have helped me stay this long is, like I said, those planning retreats. I think honestly that helped me relieve some of my frustrations. Just get it on paper and get it on a whiteboard or whatever you have to do. Go for those times to think about what do you need to change?
what needs to change in your ministry. Because that was something that when things are frustrating, you sometimes just get so frustrated you don't know what to think. So to have time to work it through, how am I going to make a change that actually brings me joy again in this area or something like that. Or maybe it's a personal thing where there's a youth leader that I need to address this thing with that person. I can't just let it go.
Rob Chartrand (45:15.549)
Right.
Terry Friesen (45:34.034)
And that's a hard one. I don't like doing those things confrontation or is always tough for me but You know to take those those weeks where you just say, okay, I'm gonna take some time here and Evaluate everything and just see you see what what's going well and what what maybe could be tweaked a little bit and those are the things that can give give a lot of life for the next term and even joy going into the next term, so Yeah, good
Rob Chartrand (45:34.045)
Hmm.
Rob Chartrand (45:51.133)
Right.
Rob Chartrand (46:03.485)
Yeah, well, it sounds I mean, it sounds like you're a reflective practitioner. So you take and you work that into your schedule, like, you know what I mean? Because a lot of us kind of do that accidentally. But if you can do it intentionally, and take the time and get away and reflect on practice. I mean, that's huge.
Terry Friesen (46:03.826)
Congru - Congru - So.
Terry Friesen (46:08.114)
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Terry Friesen (46:16.37)
Mm -hmm.
Yeah. Those are tough. It's tough to make time for that. Like you, you really, you it's like a substitute teacher. This is, I can come in and, into a school and I just come in for the day and, and, do whatever, whatever's needed. But that teacher, whoever was, whoever, whoever was making that change, or the, you know, missing for the day, they had to spend, you know, a couple of hours getting ready.
for me to come in and do what I'm doing. So if you think of just having that time to reflect and be like, okay, how am I gonna get this ready for the next round? Yeah, and that's really what happens when you give those weeks, things pile up a little bit, you have to do a little extra work, one week or two weeks in front and behind just to make sure that you have that space, but it's really, it's.
Rob Chartrand (46:48.157)
Yeah.
Rob Chartrand (47:00.573)
Yeah.
Terry Friesen (47:14.482)
It's not easy. It's challenging to keep that space there. But yeah, it's worth it. Yeah, I'll say a couple more things there. Belief from my family, my wife and kids, just to have that support and that they love what I'm doing. They're proud to be part of it and glad that I can be doing this ministry. And so for me to have that from home is, I mean, it's...
Rob Chartrand (47:17.757)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Terry Friesen (47:43.922)
the best encouragement that I could have. But what you mentioned before is absolutely true. Keeping God's Word fresh for myself, Bible study for my own, not just preparing a youth talk or something to get my spiritual nourishment. It's like, okay, how am I studying the Bible? How am I memorizing the Bible? Am I journaling it through? Am I talking to God? Am I walking, praying and walking with Him?
Rob Chartrand (48:13.565)
Hmm.
Terry Friesen (48:13.842)
And that's for any kind of longevity for anybody in ministry. I think that's a key piece there is if it feels fresh for me that I'm walking with God in a fresh, relevant way, that's going to be helpful for somebody else that's wondering how to do this for any length of time. But that's a key right there. Yeah.
Rob Chartrand (48:38.461)
Yeah.
Rob Chartrand (48:42.045)
Yeah, it's good. It's good. You know, and it's interesting as I as I talked to the other old youth guys, I mean, that's that's at the center. Like that's at the core is that, you know, that that relationship with the Lord and with his word. I mean, that's what's you can't get away from. Yeah.
Terry Friesen (48:50.514)
Hmm. Mm -hmm.
Terry Friesen (48:59.438)
Yep. No. That's the key. Yep.
Rob Chartrand (49:03.997)
Well, this has been such a great conversation, Terry. I wonder if you could close by giving a final word of encouragement with our listeners, our ministry leaders, some of them youth pastors across the country, wherever they find themselves today. Could you give them a final word?
Terry Friesen (49:20.593)
Yeah, yeah, I think the thing I would say is when discouragement settles in and there will be times of discouragement. So when discouragement settles in. I was thinking of one particular teenager that I had a very hard time with. He kind of a rebel at home and you know, his parents didn't know what to do with him.
And I remember trying to connect with him and feeling like I was failing in a lot of ways. He didn't want to follow God. He didn't want to surrender his life to Jesus at all. And he just wanted to walk his own way and do his own thing. It discouraged me very much that I couldn't change him. I couldn't do anything with that. And I felt so discouraged at one point that I didn't know how to get...
Rob Chartrand (50:07.421)
Hmm.
Terry Friesen (50:14.898)
any encouragement in my ministry anywhere because I felt so discouraged by this one person and I know there was many that were following their own walk and not God's walk but this particular one bothered me more than any of them. That was where in my daily Bible reading, my Bible study, I came across Mark 4, 26 -29. It's only mentioned in the Gospel of Mark so it's a parable that's only mentioned once.
Rob Chartrand (50:22.749)
Yeah.
Terry Friesen (50:44.402)
Jesus says there's a farmer planting a seed and when he's done, he goes home and he goes to sleep. And the seed grows without the farmer's help is what it says. And then, this is the key that got my attention as well, the farmer comes back and checks on the crop and to see what's growing. And so God was able to give me permission to connect.
Rob Chartrand (51:10.749)
Hmm.
Terry Friesen (51:13.074)
with somebody, work hard, try and work with the soil that's there, try and plant the seeds, whatever best as I can do, and then disconnect, go home, get some sleep, do something else, turn my head away from that, don't focus on that, just go do something different, get some rest, and then don't forget to come and check on the crops, see how things are looking. And I thought this,
Rob Chartrand (51:27.645)
Hmm.
Rob Chartrand (51:40.701)
Yeah.
Terry Friesen (51:42.13)
This was this pattern of working hard and then going home and resting and then coming back and working hard and resting. I just, I was given permission to have the rest and I didn't know, I guess in my early days, I didn't know that you could have that, that that was allowed. It almost seemed wrong that you weren't 100 % on all the time. And it's like, no.
Rob Chartrand (52:01.597)
Mm -hmm.
Terry Friesen (52:09.874)
This is actually permission and that helped me so much. It helped me care for that kid more than I did because I was starting to resent the kid. It helped me to love the kid more. I don't know if it was me or not, but definitely along the way, this guy did turn around and give his heart to the Lord and became somebody who was outspoken for Jesus. He was actually on a mission trip with YWAM suddenly.
Rob Chartrand (52:20.637)
Yeah.
Rob Chartrand (52:39.773)
Hmm.
Terry Friesen (52:39.794)
sharing the gospel with people around him. And I just went, I can't believe this. I can't believe this. So it was great to hear that. Even if that wasn't the way that ended up though, this is an important thing to remember. I think Jesus is giving us this permission as workers in the kingdom to work hard and then rest and then come back and see how it's going. Knowing full well that God is the one that's growing those seeds, even when we're sleeping.
Rob Chartrand (52:42.333)
Wow.
Terry Friesen (53:09.714)
even when we're taking a break. So to give, just to hand it over to God and give it into his hands, letting him work with this, work with the situations, work with the stress, even work in our own hearts and our own soul. We need the, like the Lord is my shepherd, Psalm 23. He is the one who guides us in these streams of water and beautiful places. And he says, it restores our soul.
Rob Chartrand (53:09.853)
Yeah.
Rob Chartrand (53:24.317)
Yep.
Rob Chartrand (53:37.405)
Hmm.
Terry Friesen (53:37.714)
And so that is something that I think Jesus is really wanting to do with us. But we do have to follow him. If he's our shepherd, we do have to also follow him in that. So just an encouragement that way that we can, when discouragement settles in, we can remember that God is working and that we can actually have permission to have a balance in some ways. And yeah, look for other ways, look for encouragement in other places.
Yeah, don't feel guilt about letting some of these things just go for a little bit of a time and letting them just be in God's hands. Yeah. Yeah.
Rob Chartrand (54:14.973)
Yeah, good word. Good word. Yeah. Well, Terry, thanks for joining us on Church in the North. We hope that we'll get you back on here before retirement. Yeah, so rich and so good. All right. We'll talk soon.
Terry Friesen (54:25.938)
That would be great. This has been fun, Rob. Really good. Really good. Yeah. Yeah, thanks very much.