Rob Chartrand (00:00.634)
Well, hey, we are so excited to have with us Nahom Okbatense, a pastor who's in Edmonton, Alberta, at the Living Christ Alliance Church. Nahom, welcome to the show. Hey, why don't you take a moment and introduce yourself to us? Let's just start with something simple. Why don't you start with yourself, with your family? Tell us about your family.
Nahom Kokob Okbatensae (00:14.306)
Thank you.
Nahom Kokob Okbatensae (00:29.35)
thank you for inviting me again I am married to Fikadou Zareh and I have four kids three boys and one girl and my oldest is a girl her name is Moriah and she's about to turn 17 coming September
Rob Chartrand (00:50.822)
Wow.
Nahom Kokob Okbatensae (00:59.554)
he is about to turn 15 come in November and Roy he is going to be 13 and we have a little after nine years gap little boy his name is Liam and he's turning five
Rob Chartrand (01:22.999)
Wow, wow. That's quite a spread of children there. And you've got teenagers. So you're in the.
teenage father stage of life as well. Yeah, hey, you know Nahum, for those who are listening to the podcast, what may not be obvious to everyone is that you, you have an accent and that accent is African and more particularly it's Eritrean. And so you pastor an Eritrean in Edmonton and of course your congregation are mostly Eritreans. So.
Nahom Kokob Okbatensae (01:32.414)
Yeah, yeah, a little bit hard.
Rob Chartrand (01:57.83)
Tell everybody who's listening in. I mean, Eritrea is located on the Horn of Africa, north of Somalia, kind of west of Sudan, for those who know their geography. But can you tell us a little bit, what can you tell us about your beautiful homeland? What's it like in Eritrea?
Nahom Kokob Okbatensae (02:16.551)
Eritrea is a very historic country. Most of the Canadians or I would say the North Americans, they don't know much about Eritrea. They know much about Ethiopia. I think this is because Eritrea was part of Ethiopia. It was annexed in 1952.
Rob Chartrand (02:22.372)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Okay. So, I'm going to go ahead and do this. I'm going to go ahead and do this. I'm going
Nahom Kokob Okbatensae (02:44.978)
after the second world war to Ethiopia and the people of Eritrea fought for their independence for 30 years. It was a bloody struggle for independence but we got our independence in 1991. Then again Eritrea
Rob Chartrand (02:56.505)
Yeah.
Nahom Kokob Okbatensae (03:12.87)
Geographically, we have about 1000 km of coastal land and about 300 islands and different seasons. If you go from the highland to the lowland, you can experience three seasons in two hours. There are
Rob Chartrand (03:38.482)
Wow.
Nahom Kokob Okbatensae (03:41.334)
nine ethnic groups in Eritrea. The majority are the Tigrinya speaking group which I am from and my wife is from another ethnic group it's called Belen. So two languages in one home and yeah Eritrea is populated between
Christians and Muslims 50-50.
Nahom Kokob Okbatensae (04:15.394)
The majority of the Christian-believing people are the Orthodox Church, the Protestant Church, and the Catholic Church. The other half is the Sunni Muslim. So these two people were living side by side without any conflict for centuries.
Nahom Kokob Okbatensae (04:45.218)
the first African country to receive Islam. And the first mosque is built in Eritrea. And at the same time, also, it is also the first place for Christians to arrive in Africa. So there are the first monastery.
in Africa and there is also the first mosque that's built by the Islam. So you can see Eritrea is a gate to Africa through Yemen in the Red Sea because Eritrea is located in the very strategic area in the Red Sea. So after we got our independence the
Nahom Kokob Okbatensae (05:48.578)
The force that led the armed struggle became the government and the government had the ideology of communism. So in 1998, the government started to harass the reformed churches in Eritrea. So anything that is new and reformed becomes a threat.
Rob Chartrand (05:55.875)
Yep.
Nahom Kokob Okbatensae (06:19.75)
the government. That's what they think, but it's obviously the opposite. Then in 2000, the government of Eritrea officially closed all the reformed churches, including all the reformed orthodox believers also. So the government started to handpick
all the leaders and put them in prison since then, since 2001 or 2002, the prosecution started to be worse and worse by day and now at this time all the churches are underground working.
Rob Chartrand (07:22.177)
So, let me pause for just a second here. I'm going to turn low data mode on because you're breaking up a little bit for audio. It's okay for the recording because it gets recorded to your computer first and then uploaded. So it's just that I can't hear everything. So we're going to turn our video off for just a moment now and then we'll record without video for a little bit if that's okay.
Nahom Kokob Okbatensae (07:31.019)
Okay.
Nahom Kokob Okbatensae (07:40.374)
Oh.
Okay.
Okay, yeah.
Rob Chartrand (07:47.062)
Okay. Okay, is that good there? Can you hear me? Good. Yeah, I can't see you either, so I can only see myself. So let's try that for a little bit. So let's take it from where you've just shared what's going on and I'll cue you into the next question. So here we go.
Nahom Kokob Okbatensae (07:52.118)
Yeah, it's good. I can't hear you. I can't see you, but I can hear you.
Nahom Kokob Okbatensae (08:05.23)
Okay, okay
Nahom Kokob Okbatensae (08:16.071)
Okay, okay.
Rob Chartrand (08:16.678)
Well, that brings us right into your story of coming to Canada. And you've been in Canada since 2011. So I'd love for listeners to hear your story of how you came here, particularly how it's connected to what was happening in your own country. So can you walk us through that? How did you make your way to Canada?
Nahom Kokob Okbatensae (08:44.91)
Oh, it's a long story. Haha, I will try to make it short though. Err...
After the government started banning all the churches, especially the Pentecostal and reformed churches, I was a full-time minister with one of the biggest denomination in Eritrea, it's called the Kalehiwet Church of Eritrea, and in that, around the
Rob Chartrand (09:18.161)
Yeah.
Nahom Kokob Okbatensae (09:22.198)
around 2001 and 2002 when it's about to start the persecution I was sent away to minister to churches in small towns and cities. So while I was staying in a city of Karen where I found my wife, the government, the security forces was following me.
at the end they caught me up and they put me they throw me they throw me to the prison and After that I escaped How I escaped was a long story but you know, I used my Identity card that was given to me by the government as a
teacher as an elementary teacher and
Rob Chartrand (10:25.621)
Okay, so you're to teach your card.
Nahom Kokob Okbatensae (10:28.37)
Yes, it was the teacher's card. Then I was off of the prison cell and continued ministering in another city, that's called Adyokhala. I stayed there for about one year and again it happened, the government tried to persecute me and harass me.
and the security forces were coming to my home and following me everywhere I go. Then we decided to get married with my wife. Then I moved, I came to the capital city, Yasmara. We got married and the brothers and sisters over there, they told me not to come.
Then I had nowhere to go but to leave the country. So we prayed with my wife together and we felt that God is leading us to leave the country and we left the country on foot for nine days and nine nights. It was horrible, horrible journey.
Rob Chartrand (11:56.744)
Wow.
Nahom Kokob Okbatensae (11:58.434)
because we were only allowed to walk through the nights, not during the day. So it was... But in all of this, God was there and protecting us from so many harms, from wild animals, from snakes, from rivers, you know, from enemies.
from the security forces in every spot scattered over the border area. But finally we arrived to the border of Sudan and we surrendered ourselves to the army forces and the army forces took us to the town of Kasala. And from there
Rob Chartrand (12:34.708)
Hmm.
Nahom Kokob Okbatensae (12:56.822)
they took us to refugee camp. Then we managed to move on to Khartoum. So we stayed in Khartoum for about six years as refugees, asylum seekers. We have applied for Canada.
Rob Chartrand (13:15.079)
So, were there a large number of Eritreans in the area that had fled to Sudan?
Nahom Kokob Okbatensae (13:23.198)
Oh yeah, a large number. We fled to Sudan in 2005. So it's like, it's like a wave of people coming into Sudan. Most of them are youth. From 16 years to 40.
Rob Chartrand (13:42.61)
Hmm.
Nahom Kokob Okbatensae (13:52.875)
years of age.
Mostly men. Women were following the men, but mostly were men. So we stayed in Sudan for about six years. And as I have told you, we were able to apply for a Canadian sponsorship program.
Rob Chartrand (14:00.596)
Yeah.
Nahom Kokob Okbatensae (14:24.51)
and we waited for the interview. We waited three years for the interview and finally we were managed to come to Canada. But during those six years, God has used me and my wife, starting a Bible school, training leaders and helping the church grow there.
Rob Chartrand (14:25.428)
Yeah.
Rob Chartrand (14:38.433)
Wow.
Nahom Kokob Okbatensae (14:55.184)
It was a good time. It was a good time, really.
Rob Chartrand (14:59.565)
Wow.
So it was like, I think of the story of the Book of Acts when they're in Jerusalem and then they get forced out and they are forced to go to a country that's not their home. And while they're there, they just simply continue doing what they're doing, which is proclaiming the risen Christ.
Nahom Kokob Okbatensae (15:19.594)
Yeah, exactly. That's what is happening. You know, there was a kind of prophecy that we used to hear. Those missionaries who came to preach the gospel to Eritrea, they were just dreaming and prophesying that Eritrea is going to be a gospel island for all the Muslim countries, for the Arab world.
And yeah, when the church was persecuted by the government, God used that persecution just to preach to the other ethnic groups. Let's say in Sudan, the Sudanese people allowed us to preach the gospel, to gather together.
and to do conferences and crusades even the people some of the people were coming to the Lord but there was a great caution because you know if anybody tries to come to the Lord from a Muslim family or from Muslim background all the family are against him and he is condemned to death.
So there were Eritrean Muslims that I know that they came to the Lord and they became like missionaries to the Sudanese people. So during those training years we were managed to send six people to different areas of the community in Sudan.
when they go out for preaching and God was with them and there was miracles happening souls come to the Lord or deliverances and a lot of things happened but when the South Sudanese was getting separated from Sudan
Rob Chartrand (17:37.955)
Hmm
Nahom Kokob Okbatensae (17:47.522)
the government of Sudan became so strict. And yeah, there was no, the freedom was limited, it became limited. But we were still doing good. Multitudes were coming to know the Lord. It was a great blessing. I can witness that God works.
Rob Chartrand (18:15.266)
Hmm. Yeah. And, you know, I can imagine that the Sudanese government suddenly had all of these people in their country and had to figure out how to manage that. And, I mean, restrictions were probably the easiest solution at the time. Yeah. So you came to Canada. 2011.
Nahom Kokob Okbatensae (18:17.366)
during persecution during hard times he is not silent yeah
Nahom Kokob Okbatensae (18:43.352)
Yes.
Rob Chartrand (18:43.861)
Um, applied for sponsorship. You received it. You came as a, as a refugee to Canada. Um, you were with your family. Uh, you got off of the plane and what did you think or what did you, what did you put your hand to? What, what was the first thing that you thought when I get there, this is what I want to do. Mm hmm.
Nahom Kokob Okbatensae (19:07.69)
Yeah, before us many people were coming, right? There were a lot of people that they pass through the interview and they arrive to Canada and we hear a little, a little information. But when I and my family arrived in Canada, it was totally different. We arrived during the worst winter time in February.
Rob Chartrand (19:38.849)
I'm so sorry my friend.
Nahom Kokob Okbatensae (19:39.618)
coming from Khartoum, coming from a hot, hot area. And you know, it is a shock for us. And we were not prepared, we were not prepared. We don't know how to wear. All our clothes were from Sudan, right? And we were shocked.
Rob Chartrand (19:52.691)
I bet. And now you're in Edmonton, Alberta. It's one of our largest northern cities in the country.
Nahom Kokob Okbatensae (20:14.506)
Yes, yes, and also the culture is different. The language is also a big barrier. There was a struggle, but with all those challenges, the one thing that I was thinking about was how can I plant a church?
preach the gospel to all the people's group. So that was my passion. So of course I have to work at the same time also I was planning to build up a church, to start a church. So I had to make plans to meet some people and we started from the scratch.
Rob Chartrand (20:48.013)
Hmm. Yeah. Okay. Hmm.
Nahom Kokob Okbatensae (21:12.118)
The first meeting that we held in our home was for people. Started praying and we start preaching every Saturday. And we were taking fasting and prayer during Saturdays. And you know, God was faithful and he had blessed us with the beautiful church.
It's really a family. We feel like we are real brothers and sisters. Like yesterday we had a picnic. And we were laughing, we were enjoying, we were having fun. And we were singing, we were praying. We were discussing the Word of God. It's such a blessing, you know. It's been 12 years now since we first started the Church.
But God was leading us, giving us wisdom and grace and favor. And the Alliance Church was a great help. All of that.
Rob Chartrand (22:26.809)
That's the denomination you connected with? The Alliance Church is the denomination that you connected with? That you joined as a church? Yeah.
Nahom Kokob Okbatensae (22:31.441)
Uh?
Nahom Kokob Okbatensae (22:36.626)
Yes, yes, it's the Alliance Church that we are, we are actually a member church, we are a branch church and we are very glad that we have this Alliance denomination in our side and
Rob Chartrand (22:42.578)
Okay.
Nahom Kokob Okbatensae (22:54.886)
We share the same vision, we share the same purpose, we share the same passion. So we had the blessings, the richness of God's love and mercy working together with the Alanis denomination. And you know, it is the Church.
Rob Chartrand (23:18.35)
Yeah, well, that's great.
Nahom Kokob Okbatensae (23:23.474)
only the church that's the real place for a Christian, for a believer to live in, to commune with. And we are very glad.
Rob Chartrand (23:40.046)
So, you got off the plane, you arrived in Canada, and you began right away planting the church. Did you look for other work at the time or did you just continue in planting the church up to this point? Okay. Yeah.
Nahom Kokob Okbatensae (23:48.524)
Yeah.
Nahom Kokob Okbatensae (24:00.998)
I was by vocation. I was working in a printing press in a warehouse Yeah, while doing full-time the church preaching Sundays. Yeah Yeah, yeah
Rob Chartrand (24:07.713)
Yeah. Yes. Yeah, there's no, the part-time ministry is a myth. So are you still bivocational or are you full-time in pastoral ministry only? Yeah.
Nahom Kokob Okbatensae (24:25.506)
We can say it is full time. Of course the church is paying me some money. For a part time kind, but I'm working full time. I'm not having any other jobs. So, you know.
Rob Chartrand (24:39.606)
Yes. Yeah. So you're fully invested and engaged in the work. Yeah. What's it been like for members of your church to adjust to Canadian life?
Nahom Kokob Okbatensae (24:49.118)
Yes, I am. I am.
Nahom Kokob Okbatensae (25:00.286)
Oh, it is hard. It's hard. Many people don't understand. You know, persecution is not a good thing. It, it, uh,
Nahom Kokob Okbatensae (25:15.25)
Our people have passed through many traumas. War traumas, human trafficking traumas, and you know being a refugee is not an easy thing. You are always vulnerable wherever you go to all the problems.
Rob Chartrand (25:23.05)
Mm. Yeah.
Nahom Kokob Okbatensae (25:43.946)
especially our women or girls, you know Some of them are raped some of them are you know When you when you sit down and hear the stories of each and every one of Eritrean Youth or Eritrean believer. He has his own story very terrible story so there are emotional damages
There are mental damages with all those things. OK, when you come to Canada, there are also cultural shock and language barrier. But thank God, it's one of the things that it's a blessing to be, you know, a believer that you have.
father. So when we first, when the people first arrive here, it is obvious that it's going to be very hard to live in, to make a living in Canada. So even if you have, you had a good profession, but when you arrive in Canada, it's going to be nothing. If you have education, it's going to be nothing. Everything you have is
nothing you start from the scratch
Rob Chartrand (27:13.925)
So yeah, you're starting over, aren't you? Yeah.
Nahom Kokob Okbatensae (27:17.738)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So all our people are, you know, immigrants, but we have also kids that are growing up, born in Canada. So yeah, there is also struggle raising our kids. Our kids are being raised into different cultures, always. Yeah.
Rob Chartrand (27:42.722)
Yeah. Well, yeah.
Nahom Kokob Okbatensae (27:46.754)
So it's a bit hard, but with all of these things, our people are making it. So we involve directly in jobs, working. People are very hard working. And at the same time, helping the families back home.
Rob Chartrand (28:11.069)
Okay, yeah, so you're raising money here so that you can send it back home to help families there. Yeah.
Nahom Kokob Okbatensae (28:17.352)
Exactly.
Rob Chartrand (28:20.477)
Well, let's talk a little bit about next generations, the emerging generation of Eritreans who are coming up. I think we talked about how in the past, a lot of ethnic churches in Canada are learning how they can help the next generation grow in their faith in a Canadian context. And, you know, this next generation are kind of in two worlds. They're in the world of their family of origin, but also they're in the world of Canadian culture.
I think the term for it is their third culture kids. And so those kids face significant challenges, different challenges than even kids just growing up in Canada. So let's talk about that a little bit. What kinds of challenges do new Canadians face with raising their kids in a Canadian context?
Nahom Kokob Okbatensae (28:49.814)
Mm-hmm.
Nahom Kokob Okbatensae (29:11.158)
It's a big challenge. You know, the kids, the children are very fast in learning new things, in learning the language, but the parents are way behind in everything. So there is a big gap. Even, even, you know, when, if they, if they came little, like four years or five years, most of them they came four years or five years.
They lose their language, their mother tongue. So they go to English. So the parents are having hard times understanding them. We try to teach them their mother tongue, but English is more powerful than any other languages that we have found. But later on in their ages, we see
Nahom Kokob Okbatensae (30:11.594)
want to learn more about their identity or their mother tongue. But during those times, it's a kind of struggle that you have one struggle that you have to make a living, you have to work, and at the same time you have to raise the children.
When it comes to the church, there are two groups. There are two groups, the adult speaking, the Tigrinya speaking group, and the youth or the children English speaking group. So we have been fighting how we can come together and worship the Lord as a congregation.
Rob Chartrand (31:00.213)
Yeah Hmm
Nahom Kokob Okbatensae (31:11.83)
but we couldn't. So what we decided was as a church once in a month during our main worship services we introduce English services for our youth and kids to help them grow in their faith and we found out that's a very good strategy. We give them
Rob Chartrand (31:34.394)
Hmm.
Nahom Kokob Okbatensae (31:41.714)
all the opportunities to lead us in prayer, to lead us in worship, preaching and singing and do everything they want to do like we do as a church. So they prepare for this once in a month. And the other thing that we are doing is there are also other Tigrinya, Eritrean churches, which have used groups. So
Rob Chartrand (32:07.854)
Yeah.
Nahom Kokob Okbatensae (32:10.87)
We came, the four pastors, we came together and we decided, hey...
These are our kids of course, but they are not going to stay with us. So what can we do? It's okay to let them go to join other English speaking churches, but at the same time, if they want to come together and make a church or start a church, that's fine. So we are allowing to come together.
Rob Chartrand (32:31.923)
Yeah.
Nahom Kokob Okbatensae (32:48.166)
once in a month on Friday and have a fellowship first then if that is a good thing we will continue and help them grow to becoming a full church. So that's the plan that we have.
Rob Chartrand (32:58.706)
Yes. Hmm. Well, that's fascinating. Yeah, yeah. Different ethnic churches often have to wrestle with that question of
of how they integrate their children or their youth into their services when there's that language barrier with their own mother tongue. So the adults speak the mother tongue, but the children don't all, or don't do it fluidly or fluently. And so that's difficult for them. But it sounds like your church is willing to flex on one of your services and say, well, let's lean into the English language, which most of our younger generation are speaking. And
Nahom Kokob Okbatensae (33:29.87)
Mm-hmm.
Rob Chartrand (33:50.253)
Let's let them lead us, which is, which is fascinating. I mean, that's that just gives them empowerment and gives them an opportunity to lead as well. Hmm. Yeah.
Nahom Kokob Okbatensae (33:53.938)
Yeah.
Nahom Kokob Okbatensae (34:00.83)
Yeah, yeah, as for me, I wouldn't mind if it is all English. But, you know, there are also parents that they don't understand English. So there are also immigrants coming by day. So what can we do with them, too? Right. So we have to we have to embrace them. So this is this is.
Rob Chartrand (34:20.545)
Yes. Yeah.
Nahom Kokob Okbatensae (34:31.354)
to extremes for us that we are going back and forth. But I think the solution is to make or to start an English service for our use so they can grow and they can know the Lord Jesus in a better way. And be a blessing to others also. That's the strategy.
Rob Chartrand (34:52.898)
Yeah, yeah. Hmm, yeah.
Nahom Kokob Okbatensae (34:58.946)
The one thing that we have a burden is how can we communicate the gospel of God to the other ethnic groups in Canada. So it is by starting an English service that all can understand and all people groups can come together without any producers and enjoy.
God in their lifetime.
Rob Chartrand (35:31.002)
Yeah, yeah. You know, one of the characteristics I appreciate so much about your church, and just for the
that you and I have a little bit of history together because we shared the facility of Crosspoint Church in Edmonton, Alberta. So Crosspoint Church was the church that I planted and there were different seasons where you were kind of partnered with us in the use of the facility and you're still in that facility now. So I've had a chance to witness your church firsthand. And so one of the...
Nahom Kokob Okbatensae (35:48.782)
Yeah.
Rob Chartrand (36:07.401)
One of the characteristics I always was so appreciative of is the emphasis that your church has on prayer. So why don't you tell us a little bit, how, how does your church participate in prayer together?
Nahom Kokob Okbatensae (36:22.602)
Yeah, we all believe that prayer has a strong importance in our Christian life and ministry. And we give a priority to prayer. We believe that prayer is the first work and service is the results. So without prayer, our services have no fruits.
That's what we believe. So we give in ourselves to much prayer. And sometimes we add fasting. And our people are used to spend time in prayer. And our background also helped us. Most of us came from the orthodox. And
Rob Chartrand (36:53.283)
Yeah.
Nahom Kokob Okbatensae (37:20.13)
Catholic Church. So there was, yeah, you know, in Orthodox Church, I was, my background was from the Orthodox Church. In Orthodox Church, there are a lot of times for prayer and fasting, 40 days of fasting. Another, there are two days in a week that you fast. So...
Rob Chartrand (37:21.413)
Yes. Yeah. Tell us about that. Mm-hmm.
Rob Chartrand (37:39.632)
Yeah.
Nahom Kokob Okbatensae (37:49.062)
It is fasting and prayer, fasting and prayer. Your whole life is like that. And our people are very conservative, very conservative. So to come from this religious background and know the truth and have the grace all the time, it is nothing for you to spend.
time in prayer and fasting. It's a joy you know it says sometimes you feel if you don't pray in a day you feel like you have done a very great sin. I think it's it is it's how we are wired you know. But there is also caution it's we believe that it's by grace and grace alone.
Rob Chartrand (38:20.205)
Yeah. Hmm.
Rob Chartrand (38:37.11)
Yeah. Yes.
Nahom Kokob Okbatensae (38:46.934)
that is God's work be done, right? So there is this temptation that if you don't pray, you don't have. But...
Nahom Kokob Okbatensae (39:04.21)
If you have the grace, you pray. There is there is there is a fighting, right? so Sometimes it pushes you to work But at the same time it's a pleasure And enjoyment spend a lot is to spend time in prayer with god uh so in our church we do uh now and then three days of
Rob Chartrand (39:25.621)
Yeah.
Nahom Kokob Okbatensae (39:33.07)
Fasting and prayer 21 days of fasting And we saw a Great a great blessing when we do those when we practice those things you know the answer is quick and tangible and That's that's what makes us To always stand firm and trust in God no matter what
Rob Chartrand (39:47.931)
So, yeah.
Rob Chartrand (40:03.406)
So let's talk about that 21 days, because when I heard this, I thought, wow, that's incredible. So your whole church, in my understanding, will fast and pray together, and for youth and children, it's optional, right, because of, you know, they're still growing and whatnot. But 21 days, liquids only, and corporately, the whole church participates in that. Is that correct?
Nahom Kokob Okbatensae (40:24.662)
Yeah, yeah, we only take look at juices, no hard food. Mostly we prefer drinking only water. It's voluntary for our kids, but we encourage them. We motivate them to do the same. We have done it many, many times, this 21 fastening. It's good for your health too, right?
Rob Chartrand (40:36.336)
Yeah. Hmm. Yeah.
Rob Chartrand (40:54.585)
Yeah, it's great for you. And this is a means of grace. It's not a means of grace for you, but it's flowing out of the grace of God. So, you know, it's not a works righteousness thing for your church family. It's just a response to God's incredible love and his incredible gift to us through Christ. If I was to participate, could I drink chocolate milk?
Nahom Kokob Okbatensae (40:55.12)
I'm sorry.
Nahom Kokob Okbatensae (41:02.014)
Yes.
Nahom Kokob Okbatensae (41:12.362)
Yes.
Nahom Kokob Okbatensae (41:20.298)
Oh yeah, go ahead. You can do that. Chocolate is a liquid. It's a liquid, it's not a hand food.
Rob Chartrand (41:28.788)
It's a liquid as long as it's a liquid. What about a milkshake or a slurpee? We don't want to be Pharisees about this, right? I mean, come on. Water is equal. Yes. Yeah. And...
Nahom Kokob Okbatensae (41:38.837)
Hahaha
Nahom Kokob Okbatensae (41:44.112)
We encourage you only to take water. Water is good. Water is good. I think we believe that Christ didn't have the hard foot, but he was obviously using water.
Rob Chartrand (41:55.025)
Yeah. Yeah, and I mean you can survive without food for quite a long time, but you can't survive without water for very long. Yeah. Well you know one of the other things I appreciate about your church is your passion for
Nahom Kokob Okbatensae (42:05.166)
food.
Nahom Kokob Okbatensae (42:08.804)
Yes.
Rob Chartrand (42:21.281)
church planting for multiplying workers for the gospel. And you already had said you were doing that when you were in Sudan, you were training workers to go back or to go to different parts of the country to, to preach the gospel. But you're doing that now here in Canada, aren't you? I think you recently started doing some training of workers here with a Bible school. Can you tell us more about that?
Nahom Kokob Okbatensae (42:45.334)
Yeah, we were able to this is of course God's mercy and favor. You know as I have said there are language barriers. So we like to send our leaders or our to be leaders to Bible schools and training colleges. But there is language barrier and at the same time there is also financial issues. So
We decided to start a training college here, Bible school here, with small affordability and we give quality training and courses. So we are working in collaboration with the Global University. The...
Rob Chartrand (43:22.726)
Yeah.
Nahom Kokob Okbatensae (43:47.195)
The main Bible school is located in Great Britain in London. We are working here as a branch. So we have five to six permanent teachers. So we give them courses. We have certificate program, diploma.
Rob Chartrand (43:53.324)
Yeah.
Nahom Kokob Okbatensae (44:15.234)
program and advanced diploma program.
Rob Chartrand (44:21.397)
So is that like a one year diploma? Two year diploma. Okay. Yeah. So you are a full time pastor, part time teacher professor.
Nahom Kokob Okbatensae (44:24.222)
Yes, no, two year diploma, one year certificate and three years advanced certificate.
Rob Chartrand (44:41.889)
And obviously a family man with four kids. Um, uh, got any hobbies, anything you do for fun in all your free time? Okay. Oh, good. Yeah. Ah, yes. So, so were you cheering for Canada in the world cup?
Nahom Kokob Okbatensae (44:45.486)
Yeah.
Nahom Kokob Okbatensae (44:54.03)
Yeah, I like walking, I like jogging and I like soccer, playing soccer.
Nahom Kokob Okbatensae (45:06.272)
Yeah, those are my hope.
Oh yeah, oh yeah, we were cheering all but you know, they quickly lose it Yeah, yeah They got him yeah, that's a good thing. That's a good thing that you can see the future the future is bright for them There is stress in hockey than in soccer all the African and Middle Eastern immigrants will love soccer
Rob Chartrand (45:18.587)
Yes, but they got in. That's an amazing accomplishment for Canada. Yeah. Hmm.
Rob Chartrand (45:41.041)
Yes. Yeah, yeah. Well, yeah, it continues to grow in popularity for sure. Especially with so many new Canadians coming to Canada. And I celebrate that because, I mean, in the rest of the world, soccer is huge as a sport. Is it big in Eritrea?
Nahom Kokob Okbatensae (45:41.965)
So, yeah hockey is going to be very popular and soccer is going to be very popular too very soon in Canada
Nahom Kokob Okbatensae (46:09.728)
Oh yeah. There are two most important things that you try in your life. Number one is soccer.
and the next one is cycling. So if you have found anybody from Eritrea you don't ask him do you play song.
Rob Chartrand (46:22.007)
Okay. It's just a given. Okay.
Nahom Kokob Okbatensae (46:34.078)
Everybody plays suck
Nahom Kokob Okbatensae (46:39.35)
Yeah, we are also in love with psyche, you know.
Rob Chartrand (46:44.934)
Are there some beautiful cycling roads there? I guess with the elevations changing so much, it must be incredible for cycling. Hmm.
Nahom Kokob Okbatensae (46:49.45)
Yes, yes, yes. As I have told you, you can experience three seasons in two hours just going from the highland to the lowland. So yeah, we have popular cyclists in the world stage at this time too. Like Binyam Girmay, Henok Buluburhan, Daniil. These are
competing in the first class in the elite group around the world in the world in the world in the world in the world in the world in the world in the world in the world in
Rob Chartrand (47:23.29)
Oh wow, okay. Hmm. Well, I got us a little bit sidetracked from this Bible school question.
Nahom Kokob Okbatensae (47:33.761)
Okay.
Rob Chartrand (47:34.749)
The workers you're training, what are you hoping for? When they finish their certificates or diplomas, are they hoping to get into ministry, to do mission overseas? What's the goal with those workers? Okay.
Nahom Kokob Okbatensae (47:51.559)
The goal is the first priority is to help them grow in their giftedness. So and their giftedness will lead them to their purpose in life, right? So what we do is we just advertise anybody who wants to come and take those courses but we stress
Rob Chartrand (48:07.537)
Okay. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Hmm.
Nahom Kokob Okbatensae (48:18.998)
they should be to be leaders or leaders. We stress that every leader, every leader has to have some qualifications. You know, we were, it's, it's a, it's bad news that with all this passion and the Lord is doing amazing and miraculous works.
of God, most of our leaders, they incline to the new movements.
Nahom Kokob Okbatensae (48:59.022)
What I mean by the new movement is that there is this new gospel that the church is suffering from, which is the prosperity gospel, and it's like a wildfire that is burning all the African churches at this time. It's very, very terrible, you know?
Rob Chartrand (49:02.509)
Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Hmm. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.
Nahom Kokob Okbatensae (49:28.503)
We can't deny that the African Church are poor, but the ministers are getting richer and richer and richer. They're living in mansions and they are owning...
Rob Chartrand (49:36.66)
Yeah, yeah. The prosperity gospel works for the few, but it doesn't work on the ground with the many. Yeah. Hmm.
Nahom Kokob Okbatensae (49:44.57)
Exactly, exactly. And there are also false practices like prophesying, deliverance, that they are practicing in the name of Jesus, but it's not actually the true practices of the Holy
Nahom Kokob Okbatensae (50:14.942)
So opening up a Bible school, it's very crucial for us. Now all the trainees that they have in our Bible, that they have been in our Bible school, have been saying that, where have we been? We didn't know all these truths. And we really, truly saved. That's what they are saying.
So we are giving much emphasis on training them and equipping them for ministry work, for preaching and teaching especially.
Rob Chartrand (50:59.171)
Yeah. So you're combating some false teaching and maybe even some heresy that is there and bringing them into the truth of the gospel and preparing them for kingdom work.
Nahom Kokob Okbatensae (51:09.218)
Yes.
Rob Chartrand (51:16.681)
And some of them may never be clergy necessarily in churches, but they're gonna be leaders in churches, and that's probably what you need the most right now.
Nahom Kokob Okbatensae (51:27.23)
Yes, what we do in a church is, you know, during for the pulpit supply, it's not only up to the senior pastor to preach every Sunday. We share the pulpit together. There are a lot of people that they can minister, they can preach and teach. You can see the giftedness in that, in those areas in much. But
Rob Chartrand (51:41.13)
Uh huh. Yeah. Okay. Hmm. Yeah.
Nahom Kokob Okbatensae (51:57.698)
These services of preaching and teaching need also trainings. You have to know what the sound doctoring is. You have to know how to harmonetics, how to preach and doing homiletics. You know? So we didn't have much opportunities and much.
Rob Chartrand (52:09.774)
Yeah.
Nahom Kokob Okbatensae (52:28.25)
uh chances to get trained but with this limited uh resources we are at least doing a little thing to help the Eritrean church uh grow yeah
Rob Chartrand (52:49.243)
Yeah, well, I mean, yeah, I think it's tremendous the work you're doing. I mean, especially, I mean, first of all, your churches are probably on average lower income than, say,
the average Canadian church, but also the cost of education, particularly Christian higher education is pretty high, right? So it would never be accessible to the workers in there. So you're meeting a very significant need. Now, it's very low cost, too, I think you were saying. Yeah, yeah, that's like.
Nahom Kokob Okbatensae (53:22.411)
Yeah, it's 100 Canadian dollar for one course That's it
Rob Chartrand (53:32.318)
A regular course would be 12 times to 15 times that for somewhere else. So that's incredible. Yeah. Yes, yeah.
Nahom Kokob Okbatensae (53:36.074)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I tried myself to go for a master's program. Oh, when I see what I have in my hand and what the tuition fees are is incredibly.
Rob Chartrand (54:00.454)
Yeah, it is costly. I mean, education in general is costly, but Christian education is higher because you don't receive government subsidy. And so you have to rely on tuitions and on donors to make a go of it. Well, when you and I last spoke, I asked you this question, I asked you what is it that you dream about for the next 10 years in your church? And you talked quite a bit about your vision.
Nahom Kokob Okbatensae (54:03.978)
Yeah, it is.
Nahom Kokob Okbatensae (54:10.983)
Exactly.
Rob Chartrand (54:27.969)
So I wonder if you could share that with us. What do you dream about next 10 years? Hmm
Nahom Kokob Okbatensae (54:32.174)
That's a good question and it's very challenging also, right? As a church, we are planning to be a Saint Dean Church. It's not a matter of being small or big. It is a matter of having a heart for the Great Commission. As I have told you, we came from that...
tiny country in East Africa but we have gone through many countries so we know the need in there. Also in our home country there are nine ethnic groups the only rich ethnic group is the Tigrinya the largest ethnic group but the other eight ethnic groups are not.
reached. I mean there are a lot of measurements what makes one people group of one ethnic group reached or unreach it. There are no churches of each of those ethnic groups so far. But we have people from those
Rob Chartrand (56:01.053)
Hmm. Wow.
Nahom Kokob Okbatensae (56:01.922)
So what we are trying to do is to train them wherever they are and try to send them back home and do the ministry if they have this passion. And also, when we go through Sudan, we have seen the demand. So it's really a land of witchcraft.
Rob Chartrand (56:30.103)
Yeah.
Nahom Kokob Okbatensae (56:30.162)
and land of where demonic activities are high and yeah we need to go there and preach the gospel too. We have the same culture with Sudanese people, we share the same culture, we can easily communicate the gospel to them and to the Somali community or to the Somali
people also. So we have a shared culture, we can go. And we have also already some missionaries, some international missionaries that are working hard in trying to reach those people. The
Nahom Kokob Okbatensae (57:27.55)
so they are scattered in Eritrea, in Sudan, in Egypt, all the way to Yemen.
So these people are an enriched group.
Rob Chartrand (57:38.77)
So are those are those workers affiliated with your church or just you're affiliated with a movement they're part of?
Nahom Kokob Okbatensae (57:48.474)
We have one worker who is a member of our church and he is preparing himself and his family. His wife is studying to be a nurse. She already graduated. They are preparing to take off for mission work in some areas for the Beja tribe.
Rob Chartrand (57:54.429)
Okay. Wow. Yeah.
Nahom Kokob Okbatensae (58:18.042)
and there are also others who are very passionate but you know they need training and backup and this is this is new for us
Nahom Kokob Okbatensae (58:34.667)
We need more wisdom and trainings in how to do effectively. These are our passion at this time. Also, Canada is becoming the center of, you know, all the ethnic groups are coming.
from different sides of the world to Canada. So we are also lucky that we are now going that much, but they are coming. So we need to be prepared for that too. The great commission is goal to all the peoples, to all the nations. And as a pastor and leader, I wanna see that.
Rob Chartrand (59:07.125)
Yeah.
Rob Chartrand (59:25.906)
Yes.
Nahom Kokob Okbatensae (59:31.438)
I want to see that happening in my life. I myself want to go somewhere to try, just to try myself. If I am really, you know.
Rob Chartrand (59:39.861)
Yeah. Yeah, and God in His foresight and sovereignty has brought all of the nations to our doorstep here in Canada. And what a great opportunity we have to share the good news of Christ with all of them. So now, I mean, thank you for sharing your story.
Nahom Kokob Okbatensae (59:55.382)
Yeah, that is it. True.
Very true.
Rob Chartrand (01:00:08.309)
Two imprisonments, nine days of walking in the dark, six years in Sudan. 2011, you're here in Canada. You get off the plane and you plan to church and continue the work that you've been doing all along and through prayer and trusting the Lord, he has continued to grow and to prosper your church. And now he wants to multiply the good work he's doing there and send people to the ends of the earth. Is that a good summary?
Nahom Kokob Okbatensae (01:00:38.282)
Yes, you perfectly summarized it. Thank you so much Yeah
Rob Chartrand (01:00:43.441)
Well, thanks be to God. And thank you for sharing with us today. I appreciate your heart and your passion and your desire to see Jesus' Kingdom come here on earth as it is in heaven. Thanks for your time today.
Nahom Kokob Okbatensae (01:00:57.662)
You are welcome. Thank you so much, but I apologize for my English. I should have apologized at the very beginning, but hope everybody understands.
Rob Chartrand (01:01:09.718)
Yes, no, I think it's coming through loud and clear. So not to worry about that. Yeah. Thank you. And hope to have you on the show again here sometime in the future. All right. God bless.
Nahom Kokob Okbatensae (01:01:16.578)
Yeah. My pleasure.
Nahom Kokob Okbatensae (01:01:22.462)
my pleasure. Thank you Rob.
God bless you.