Rob Chartrand (00:03.224)
Well, hey, we are so excited to have with us on Church in the North, Hernando Munoz. He is the Spanish congregation pastor at First Alliance Church in Calgary. Hernando, welcome to the show.
Hernando Munoz (00:16.884)
Hi Rob and thank you. is a great pleasure to be part of this time together and thank you for the invitation to Church in the North. So very happy to be here today.
Rob Chartrand (00:28.514)
Yeah, that's so good. Listen, hey, there's so much I wanna talk about. So many questions I gotta ask about your story and about your church and what God is doing. But I thought I'd start with your family's faith story, because I just, you know, in talking with you, I just found that so fascinating about your journey of coming to Jesus. I wonder if you could give us a little bit about that background from all the way back to the days in Columbia.
Hernando Munoz (00:55.004)
Yeah, so we came to faith with my family about 30 years ago when Colombia and most of Latin America were primarily Catholic. So in fact, in the Colombian constitution, there was a decree, a declaration that says this is a Catholic country. So back then that that changes maybe 25 years ago. So my mom, she was very sick. She had a very hard that diagnosed.
of heart disease. And she was just sent home by the doctors without any solution to just wait for death. And we have some relatives that they came to faith through these evangelical churches. At that time, were very little, very few, and they would look like cults and very weird people that nobody wanted anything to do with. And they came and they prayed for my mom, and my mom received instant miraculously healing right there.
That brought us to Jesus. It brought my dad. My dad was very far from God as well and they didn't want to do anything with churches. And yeah, when that happened, that just changed everything. God made himself so real to them and they start just going to church and learning about everything. So that's where we start our faith journey with the Lord.
Rob Chartrand (02:21.272)
So was it just your entire family just suddenly pivoted and embraced this new faith?
Hernando Munoz (02:28.258)
Yes, it was just very real to us that, I mean, we just knew it was there was no other option. This was real to us. And we didn't know anything about church, anything much about Christianity, because that was what happened with with Catholicism is that we we went to church three times when we got baptized as an infant, when we married and then when we died.
as it was. there was not really much of biblical substance context in churches as well. So nobody actually read the Bible. And so also not much space for personal faith and growth and not a relationship with Jesus, very, very far from God. So when we just received this prayer and were invited to the church after and keep learning, it was very new, very new.
Rob Chartrand (02:57.847)
Okay.
Hernando Munoz (03:26.738)
It was very radical, very one turning point transformation experience. And yeah, then we just started learning more and more about God and the Bible and growing in the faith and wanting to serve him more and more because even we were few Christians, the churches were small, people were very convinced of their faith. So very strong in prayer.
in evangelism, we were going to church four or five times during the week. So people were very given to God because it was a real risk to come to faith and just even departing from their parents, their families. I remember growing up being the only kid, the only evangelical kid in the school. were the only Christian church in town. And yeah, lot of the stories around that, but
Rob Chartrand (04:14.606)
Okay.
Hernando Munoz (04:22.344)
It was very powerful to see God at work and just seeing him fill in our hearts and convince that this is the truth, the way and the life.
Rob Chartrand (04:30.144)
Yeah, well, I can't imagine how challenging this decision that would have been because so much of the cultural and the historical faith of the community was Catholicism. And now you guys were making a break from that. so it wasn't just a break. You weren't just changing churches. You were you were changing everything, basically.
Hernando Munoz (04:49.79)
Yeah, that's true how it was. thank God, those years, God has made a big difference. And yeah, a lot of people, pioneers, missionaries, and just local evangelists and pastors that really gave their lives for God and start churches. in a very short period of time, there has been a huge transformation really in Latin Rica.
huge revivals, churches growing to mega churches and it's been just an explosion of the gospel. yeah, it's the work of the Holy Spirit visiting the nation. on the one side, like, looking also to the social context in Latin America, political context, where countries haven't been able to really grow and really enjoy the richness that they have.
because of violence and social problems and political instability. But now see how really the gospel is taking root and has provided a way for transformation. So I think that's the story of my life. Just, you know, this Latin American family, not really hope, no hope, lots of problems and plugging into this church and trusting in God and then seeing that he really makes a way even in the most dark.
or difficult circumstances. So it's beautiful to see how the gospel has grown in Latin America, churches, really in one generation. And now, yeah, it's even now sending missionaries and sending, exporting revival to other places.
Rob Chartrand (06:38.156)
Yeah. Yeah, praise God. And you eventually made the decision though to come to Canada in 2008. So how old were you when you made that decision? And what was the reason for that decision?
Hernando Munoz (06:54.41)
I was finishing my college. I was getting to be a teacher, language teacher. And I got an invitation from my school to go to Canada. And I wasn't even sure where Canada was on the map. Never thought about leaving my country. And this was just a very random situation. I didn't have to apply for this. I was invited to do it. And it was funny because even I, like the school, they
provided for my flight tickets, my accommodations, and gave me papers to apply for a visa. And my visa was denied the first time. And I thought, OK, this is not from God, and it's fine. I I wasn't looking for it. And I went to the head of the school, the dean. This is a large Catholic school, And she said, and I was going to just thank her for inviting me and just say, well, I didn't get the visa, but thank you.
And she said, you have to reapply. You have to do it. You have to do it again. visa. And I was, I wasn't really planning on doing that, but I did it because she was insisting and I say, okay, Lord, I'll do it again. And, I got my visa just maybe a week before I had to fly to Canada because I reapply the same week. So it was even harder to get a visa when I just got one rejected. I did it. I applied for the visa.
And yeah, I traveled that summer to Canada to just be part of this program. I was 21 years old and that just opened a whole other plan that got hard prepared for me to come to this country. And that basically changed my life from being my country.
to now living in Canada now for a few years now, but that's where my story began. And then joined ministry, joined the church and being able to call Canada my home first, the place where I got married. I had my kids, but also where I spend now a few years serving God, serving the Hispanic community and just doing life here.
Rob Chartrand (09:19.256)
So was there a call on your life for ministry before you came or did that kind of emerge after you got here in Canada?
Hernando Munoz (09:28.126)
Yeah, so since I was little, just coming to church, it was a very vital church. Even we were small and kind of on the margins of the society. It was very vital and people were praying and just believing for all of God, miracles happening. And it's a very beautiful experience. So from very little, I feel like I was very blessed to have this experience and my church experience and my family experience where we will just give ourselves to God.
And growing up, I just wanted to know more about the Lord. I think that's been what is driving me in my heart to pursue ministry and pursue education and everything for God. It's just desire to know Him. And yeah, when I was young at all, still in Columbia, I think I recommitted my life to the Lord one day and I said, Lord, whatever you want me to do, I'll do it.
just wanna follow with all my heart, pursue everything you have for me. So that was a prayer I did at a point when I was trying to decide what to do for school. And after that, yeah, now I feel everything God putting on my path has worked for a purpose and building a purpose in my life. how God, I can't really explain how God brought things to me and how his.
he keeps bringing things to me in just very unexplainable ways. I cannot explain how it's happened, like coming to Canada, but in other areas as well, like getting to know my wife and the place where I first began ministry and how that ministry led me to other places in ministry. So it's been very unexplainable to me, but it all started back then when I was a kid in Colombia.
just when God came and raised my family. And then as a young man, just saying, I'll do whatever you want me to do and take me wherever you want me to go and I'll do it. And I feel that's kind of my heart still to say yes to God and just trust. And yeah, and there has been a lot of journeys. Not everything is happy and bumpy.
Rob Chartrand (11:38.274)
Yeah, yeah. Well, it's a dangerous prayer to pray that, but we all need to pray it and be willing to accept whatever it is that the Lord asks us to do. You eventually, though, ended up planting a church in Toronto, didn't you? How long were you in Canada before you started this church plant?
Hernando Munoz (12:02.062)
So it had been a year in Canada for me. So kind of the transition because I was supposed to go back to Columbia once my school program ended and I was just planning to go back and I went to visit these friends from back home. They were already established here in Toronto and they were they attended
Rob Chartrand (12:05.869)
Wow.
Hernando Munoz (12:28.734)
a Spanish church in Toronto, first Spanish Alliance Church. And they start telling me like, why don't you pray? Maybe the Lord wants you to stay here. And there is a lot of ministry to do and just pray. So I started kind of very open-handed feeling, maybe Lord, if you want me to say, I'll do it. So I plugged to the church there in Toronto and they invited me to be the youth pastor.
Rob Chartrand (12:58.082)
Okay.
Hernando Munoz (12:58.826)
So that's how it first began, maybe a month after I came to Canada, I was a youth pastor. And after a year, we were reached at the church by an organization in downtown Toronto, and they have a shelter. They were gathering people, and there is now a regular meeting of newcomers from Latin America, mainly Mexico.
They were coming to this place to gather food and clothing and just different help. And they start a Bible study, but they didn't have a pastor. So they reach out to our church looking for a pastor for these people. And I joke to my pastor because my senior pastor, I mean, this guy's been here for a year as the youth pastor. And he said, will you want to go and just start leading this group there and we'll plant a church.
And I joke because I joke with the verse that says the harvest is plentiful, but the workers are few. And I thought to myself at that moment, the workers are so few here in Canada that they are sending me, like how can they send a 22 years old man with not much experience in ministry to plant a church in this place in downtown? So that's how I was called to start a church plant.
very unprepared, not having much experience, but really responded to a call and to a need. And that was good. I mean, we spent about 12, 13 years. We first met in the shelter. So it was was funny because we had the Sunday meetings and then we had to remove everything because people from the city from the streets were actually coming to sleep in this same building in the same room.
Rob Chartrand (14:53.176)
Wow.
Hernando Munoz (14:53.642)
And after a few years, we were able to move to an actual church building that people are still meeting right now there in Toronto. So it was beautiful, new immigrants providing a family. Our church was called La Casa, the house, and it was all about providing a family for those who were coming, a family in Christ, but also a family in Canada. They were moving as immigrants to a new country.
Rob Chartrand (15:20.302)
So did you meet your wife in this church or did you meet her somewhere else?
Hernando Munoz (15:24.842)
to actually, I was starting to date my wife at the time, my girlfriend, before I moved to Canada. So this is going back. Yeah, so I told my wife, I'm going to Canada, I'm coming back in three months. And she said, you're not coming back. this is, I mean, this was very helpful to me because she was a woman of God and she knew what was going. was sent.
And I said, but why wouldn't I come three months? have my flight, my return flight ticket and everything. And she said, you're not coming. That is doing something. So I came and, then, well, I called her and I'm telling her I'm not coming back. And I'm not sure when I, when I'm coming back, because I'm now going to start also a process to apply for permanent papers here in Canada. So I can't really go back until everything is solved for me.
So it was actually three years. So we didn't see each other for three years and back then we have the video call. We didn't have the WhatsApp. So it was phone call and I didn't earn much money. So I have to call her maybe once a week. And yeah, I think God protected our love. I think that's what I feel it happened. It wouldn't be impossible just.
Rob Chartrand (16:25.066)
Wow.
Hernando Munoz (16:47.014)
for us in our strength, but God actually protected our love throughout those three years. And when she came, we got married and yeah, we started life together and she joined the ministry as well and life in Canada for us.
Rob Chartrand (17:01.1)
Wow. So, I mean, I just, that's a commitment. That's a decision on her part to make of the calling that God had on your life and hers as well. And like three years is a long wait.
Hernando Munoz (17:18.93)
Yeah, yeah. And I think the hardest part came when she actually received her Canadian residence and had to move to Canada. Like she had already developed a profession. She was working for the Ministry of Education in Colombia. She had a good job, stability. So it was hard.
Yeah, again, I don't think it would have been possible unless God was in the midst of it. And she finally said, OK, I'll go. And when she said, I'll go, she just also committed to whatever Jesus had for her life as well. And we've seen the fruits of that as well. mean, it's a long process to really come to a new country, like even us, and just learn the language. We were
Rob Chartrand (17:50.115)
Yeah.
Hernando Munoz (18:13.66)
ministering to people, but we were ourselves in that same journey. And I remember one point in the church plan that I was the only person who had permanent papers in Canada out of all the congregation. So they were either refugees, they were waiting for processes, but I clearly remember I was the only person in the church who had permanent papers. So
That was one of the major prayer requests in our church. Lord, let us stay in Canada. So my wife coming to just immigrate and starting to learn the language and starting to find equivalence for her education. Going through that process was hard, but I think for us is what God called us at the end to do.
Rob Chartrand (18:50.702)
Wow.
Rob Chartrand (19:14.136)
So, and you have three children as well, ages, I think 10, nine and eight, is that correct?
Hernando Munoz (19:20.648)
Yes, yes. So our kids are now 10, 9 and 8 and they were all born in Toronto. Now we're here in Calgary. It's a joy. They're one year apart each other. it was a good time for us, church planting, immigration, having kids, education. But it's a great... Yeah.
Rob Chartrand (19:35.022)
Yeah.
Rob Chartrand (19:41.57)
That is a lot of change in a very short period of time, my friend.
Hernando Munoz (19:45.372)
Yeah, yeah. And I think like one of the hardest parts is not having your family when you start a family and you want to have your mom and dad giving you a hand and all of that. So not having like even for my wife, her mom when she was in the delivery room and just as so that's I think that's difficult, but.
Rob Chartrand (19:58.19)
Yeah.
Hernando Munoz (20:13.778)
It also expands our hearts and give us eyes to understand what people go through in this country. That is a beautiful country, but still living in your country is a hard experience.
Rob Chartrand (20:25.986)
Yeah, yeah. So talk to me about your journey to First Alliance Church in Calgary then. How did God orchestrate that?
Hernando Munoz (20:36.458)
So FAC is one of the largest churches in the Alliance in Canada and they felt the vision to start a Hispanic congregation here in South Calgary. My wife and I joined the team to lead the congregation without really knowing what was going to happen. We have never been to Calgary. We were established already in Toronto, but it came through
people that we appreciate and are in authority to us. So that gave us a lot of peace and we sent God was doing something here in Calgary. They were looking for a pastor and they were dreaming with launching this congregation. we sent that mission.
Rob Chartrand (21:33.272)
Go ahead and bat, you can start that again. Do you need to pick up the call? Okay. We'll edit it out. I'll let my editor know, so no worries about that.
Hernando Munoz (21:37.202)
No no, I don't. I don't even realize this coming here.
Rob Chartrand (21:47.439)
So go back to Calgary. How did God orchestrate that?
Hernando Munoz (21:48.49)
you
Hernando Munoz (21:54.9)
So FAC is one of the largest churches in the Alliance in Canada. And they felt from God a vision to start a Hispanic congregation in South Calgary. And my wife and I joined the team to lead the congregation without really knowing what was going to happen. We began to gather with people when we came. We'd never been to Calgary and...
it came through people that we recognize in ministry that we appreciate. So we felt peace and we also felt, well, God is doing something here. And I remember the first time we came to meet people in the church, we traveled to Calgary and First Alliance is a multi-campus church that serves South Calgary. So they already had a campus here and we were kind of...
going to the different campuses this weekend just to sense God's leading. And it was International Day, so it was around October when the church celebrates missions, International Day. And we went to this Southwest campus that meets at a school there in the middle of a large growing community. And they had international service and
they started leading worship in Spanish. So the worship leader was actually from Venezuela and she was leading that Sunday worship and she started singing in Spanish and we failed with my wife. Like we were looking at each other like so connected to, wow, God is really doing something here. Something larger, something bigger, is at work. And we went back to Toronto. We had a strong sense that we should come and
Rob Chartrand (23:33.166)
Yeah.
Hernando Munoz (23:46.122)
And we came and we felt the heart of the church here to reach out the city and to reach out the different communities and to do something like something that maybe other church wouldn't do. This is like a very large church. So I had the question, why is this church doing this? Why they want to do a service in Spanish?
And some of the reason, like the main reason is just God put it in our hearts. But then they felt they had a community that was struggling to follow their service in English. And they were already doing something special. They provided a translation for them in their language, which they still do to different languages. But they just felt...
God's calling to do this and they wanted people not just being there sitting, but actually taking a leadership role and being able to fully be a church in their own language and their own culture. So they fully supported the Spanish congregation as their church, as an expression of their church.
So it wasn't going to work as a separate church, but really as an expression of who they are. So they were investing and putting their vision and just giving this community the capacity to develop in their own culture and language. So it was a nice fusion of things. We kind of received the blessings of a long-standing church with a strong tradition.
with certain Christian tradition, but then bringing our own ethnic identity. So that's what we have been experiencing, the beauty of being a truly Hispanic Canadian church in Calgary. And it's been very surprising. We began when we moved over, so we brought our kids, family, everything, we moved over to Calgary and started praying and gathering with some people to pray and planning for launching an official service.
Rob Chartrand (25:41.228)
Hmm. Hmm.
Hernando Munoz (25:58.246)
not knowing what was going to happen. And really we were very surprised. God was just bringing people and people and people and people beyond our imagination and dreams. And it was clear to me that really God wanted to plant a church for Hispanics in South Calgary. There was the need. People were there. People didn't have a church. It was hard to find a place. And a lot of people were just around in need of a place.
where they could come and in their own language. So it's been really a great joy for us to be part of what God has been doing here at FAC. And I believe this is sparkling other things for the church and for the ministry, seeing the opportunity that there is in multicultural ministry, which is a difficult thing to do because...
It's hard to step into a different language as a church. Maybe we see missionaries or international workers, they do it. But as a church here in Canada, as a whole church to step into multicultural ministry is a larger project. So I felt they risk it, they follow God's call, they did it, and I feel God is bringing fruits out of that.
Rob Chartrand (27:09.624)
Hmm.
Hernando Munoz (27:21.16)
like myself as being a Hispanic, I feel so blessed to be part of a church so loved and so welcomed by the church itself, which I think, I mean, we're called to be the difference if the world is hard or difficult, the church is just this place where we are different and we're welcoming and we can really come together. Yeah.
Rob Chartrand (27:24.27)
Hmm.
Rob Chartrand (27:48.556)
Yeah. So your church in Calgary, I mean, you're at First Alliance Church, which is very much in like a more of a suburban area. Well, it's kind of industrial, but it's located, you know, in it's not inner city like Toronto. I mean, your other church was much more inner city. So, I mean, how are they different than from each other? They've got to be like servicing and helping different people or
Talk to me about the difference between the two churches.
Hernando Munoz (28:20.306)
Yes, so the first setting was an inner city. Our ministry there was very much a welcoming ministry, transitional ministry where people were coming just arriving to Canada. It was beautiful because they were in a place where they are very open. We were talking about how Latin America was strongly Catholic, but it's really in need to get to know Jesus.
Rob Chartrand (28:28.323)
Yeah.
Rob Chartrand (28:41.358)
Mm-hmm.
Hernando Munoz (28:50.1)
So we found a lot of people coming from very strong Catholic backgrounds, they were very open because now they're in a different position. They need relationships and they are really willing to receive from others. So that context really was beautiful in creating opportunities to ministry people who were very open to evangelical or Christianity or just, I mean.
getting to know Jesus in a deeper level. The difficult part is for the establishment of the church because, I mean, know, downtown Toronto, these areas, people don't really stay there. They don't really take root on these places. They look for other places where housing is more affordable. There is more opportunities. So we were a very transitional ministry and
Yeah, think part of it is we feel we had a calling to really invest more into a larger church or develop leadership and things like that. But we just love it, creating relationships and the familiarity of ministry to newcomers. And then over here in Calgary, Calgary is a city that is growing like old Canada. Just a lot of building, new neighborhoods, new communities.
And this area of South Calgary is growing exponentially. And it was surprising for us to find that these spaces are actually becoming a haven for immigrants because housing is more affordable. And I think there is also better job opportunities for people, which is more difficult in the more crowded cities of Canada.
Rob Chartrand (30:33.838)
Hmm.
Hernando Munoz (30:49.14)
Well, that actually helps the church a lot because in Toronto, people were commuting an hour, an hour and half just to get to church. They had very, very difficult demanding jobs. So I couldn't, I didn't ask much from them. I'm actually, I was very happy they were coming to the service because I knew how their lives was very hard. So here.
Rob Chartrand (30:58.114)
rate.
Hernando Munoz (31:14.474)
in this area in Calgary, people are commuting 15 minutes, 20 minutes to come to church. They actually are being able to buy a house. And that's a huge difference for anybody, but even more so for immigrants. So we've been able to invest more in people and also seeing how people are more willing to receive more. And hopefully this is something that doesn't happen only in Calgary, but in other places of Canada.
Rob Chartrand (31:36.91)
Hmm.
Hernando Munoz (31:44.434)
where immigrants are finding more spaces where they can establish themselves. And that is also a win for church planting, for which planting is more beneficial.
Rob Chartrand (31:57.4)
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah, and I said earlier, industrial, what I meant was commercial. So there's a bunch of commercial and as well as housing all around there as well, residential. So it's got quite a blend of just, it's a kind of a hub down there of where people activity happens, right? Right around the church campus.
Hernando Munoz (32:19.868)
Yes, yes. I found how Calgary is very different from like Ontario and like those dynamics as well. And I feel everything really benefits family life. Because then you have everything close in the proximity and you don't have to commute that much. yeah, we're very blessed to also.
Rob Chartrand (32:36.494)
Hmm.
Hernando Munoz (32:49.29)
see that kind of community where people have more time for family and for church and that makes ministry different too.
Rob Chartrand (33:01.868)
Yeah. You said before that that your Hispanic congregation is it's not a separate church than First Alliance. It is part of the First Alliance churches. So you're one body, but yet you also have separate congregations. I wonder if you could explain that model to our listeners a little bit.
Hernando Munoz (33:21.522)
Yeah, so I think the basic principle is to be one church in different expressions. So as a one church, we share a church vision and we also, yeah, we follow God's link in one direction and that's the direction of reaching out in Calgary and the world. So...
I think the interesting part as a multi-generational, because it's not just multi-ethnic, but it's also multi-lingual. It's also multi-generational. It's also multi-site. So there is different multiple things happening. Yeah, yes. Yeah, everything, something else is popping up. But I think one part is just, yes, be...
Rob Chartrand (34:01.038)
Hmm.
Rob Chartrand (34:09.804)
very multi.
Hernando Munoz (34:20.188)
is the integration, is how we keep ourselves together. So there is a lot of intention in how that happened here in the church. And there is a lot of diversity in leadership, in church ministry, in how things happen in the church. So there is a lot of intention behind that. It just doesn't really happen, but it needs to be integrated.
I feel as a church we have grown in learning how to do it and learning from others as well. And just keep trusting that this is the direction God wants us to go here in Canada, where people are coming from different countries, but also where we see changes happening so fast, where new generations are racing, new communities are growing. So I think in part of it's been the leadership of the church trying to see the opportunities.
and but also see the need for the church to adapt to the context where they are. So like for instance, we meet and I appreciate this very much from our churches that everybody kind of has the same place on the table. And even if you're the new church, even if you are an online church, everybody is part of the same family.
Rob Chartrand (35:38.284)
Hmm.
Hernando Munoz (35:46.376)
family and is seen as the same value. And something special for me is that on Sunday, we have our Sunday morning service, which as an immigrant congregation, part of another church is not usually what happens because, but the church has been very intentional to just use every space opportunity that they have to bring up people. And we have here in the church on Sundays.
Rob Chartrand (36:01.944)
Right.
Hernando Munoz (36:13.726)
the English service, which is the largest service and they use the larger auditorium happening. And at the same time, we are meeting in the second largest space in Spanish. So it's beautiful because you can come through the church doors and you're walking through the hall and here you hear people worshiping in Spanish and you keep walking and then you hear people worshiping in English.
And then like our children's ministry, we meet together, which is very beneficial as well for an immigrant church because the second generation, they feel more connected to the host, the local Canadian English culture. And that helps us also to subsist as a congregation. And so there is a lot of elements of integration, keeping ourselves together, aligned and working together.
Rob Chartrand (37:03.502)
Hmm.
Hernando Munoz (37:11.262)
But then there is also a lot of freedom on being ourselves and finding the ways that work better for us to connect with God and with our community. And that's been great, I feel, for us.
Rob Chartrand (37:26.776)
So you share next gen ministries with the other congregations in the church?
Hernando Munoz (37:32.222)
Yes, we do share all ministries. Maybe at some point we tweak things, but for instance, the children's and youth ministries is a one program. And we do camps, youth meetings, Sunday school programs together. Especially that part is very beneficial for us to do it together because kids feel better, more
part of the church that speaks the same language their friend speaks. But then we have occasional activities in Spanish because we know these kids are navigating two worlds and they're between two cultures. And we know just having that connection with their roots, their parents' roots, it's good for them and for their homes as well. So we do have, we do integrate in.
in some Spanish, some sort of Spanish activities and events. So they are well cared from all sides, from Canadian culture, from Hispanic culture, hopefully being rooted in Christ and just receiving as much as possible from the church experience.
Rob Chartrand (38:39.905)
Yeah.
Rob Chartrand (38:54.242)
Yeah, well, and I can imagine that that would be an important value for the families who attend your church is that their children still are able to experience their first culture and experience Christ in a framework of their first culture.
Hernando Munoz (39:09.896)
Yes, yes, I think culture is very important for us. It's really a defining for us and probably some of us may not be aware of how important that is because we live in our own culture. It's just when you are outside of your culture that you hold onto your culture so strongly that it becomes a survival tool.
And I know many people come to the church just because it's the place where they can speak their language. They don't have that any other places in the week, in their workplaces. And it's hard to connect with people from your country. And that's a big attractive from the church is that they can come to a place where they feel their country for a little time.
Rob Chartrand (40:04.78)
Yeah. Are there other ethnic congregations than at First Alliance?
Hernando Munoz (40:10.218)
There is groups and currently the church is launching a Portuguese campus, so a full campus in Portuguese. And this has been the heart of the church. The vision of launching 10 new expressions of FAC in the next 10 years. that's been the prayer and vision of the church.
Rob Chartrand (40:13.687)
Okay, yeah.
Rob Chartrand (40:20.814)
Mm.
Hernando Munoz (40:40.33)
10 in 10 years. So this year it has come also as something God has worked out and there is a Portuguese campus now officially being launched fully from FAC. yeah, it's just amazing to see that how once the church opens the opportunity, there is a ripple effect where there is things out there that
just are waiting for someone to do something and yeah, the church keeps moving into that direction of multi-campus and creating spaces for new expression. is another, there's an online campus here as well. So that's another whole world that is also very exciting to see people connecting in other countries in different languages and using technology, which also
Rob Chartrand (41:13.528)
Hmm. Hmm.
Hernando Munoz (41:39.214)
is a great benefit now that language barriers are less difficult to overcome through technology distance.
Rob Chartrand (41:49.9)
Yeah. So these other groups are there are other language groups or cultural groups is the thought that maybe perhaps one day they could eventually become campuses as well.
Hernando Munoz (42:02.898)
I think the Church is moving with a large vision and then praying step by step. So that's how it happened to the Portuguese and with us as well. So I think the Church takes really, you know, the work of discerning and seeing what God wants to do. And I'm very open, very open to,
Rob Chartrand (42:11.843)
Yeah.
Hernando Munoz (42:30.612)
how these expressions may look like. So there is not really like a fixed pattern for multicomposite development. There is an structure, but it's very open to like inner city or online or ethnic communities. It's more what the Lord kind of brings to the church and then discernment and trust in.
Rob Chartrand (42:55.235)
Hmm.
Rob Chartrand (43:00.994)
Yeah, well, and I can imagine that one of the most important hurdles is to find a leader, to find somebody who has, you know, the call and the training and the time to lead a congregation or who can commit full time to it even. And so, you know, we asked the Lord of the Harvest to raise up workers and you really do need the Lord to initiate that. They don't just appear.
magically on trees.
Hernando Munoz (43:31.518)
Yes. Yeah. Yeah. But then also the willingness of the church to take risks, let go of control. Because I go back to how I first start. And I think I was not a good candidate to start a church plant at the beginning. And I guess I mean, I give credit to my pastor who said, OK, you go and...
Rob Chartrand (43:42.072)
Hmm.
Hernando Munoz (43:59.348)
For me, I think he was crazy, but I imagine he was a man of God and saw something. And he said, this is my work and trust. I feel a lot of things that God wants to do, come out of those experiences where a lead pastor or someone that can do something hears from him and that idea becomes something and that...
Rob Chartrand (43:59.831)
Hmm.
Hernando Munoz (44:29.022)
God brings everything that is needed. Really, God has unlimited resources, unlimited possibilities. yeah, when we are willing to risk it and pray and trust and work together, invite others, that just creates a great space to see things happening and the Kingdom at work.
Rob Chartrand (44:52.044)
Yeah, amen. So the people who end up at your church, who walk in the door, are they all from, an evangelical tradition or some of them from a Catholic tradition or maybe even a nominal religious tradition? Tell me about them. What's the makeup? What's the breakdown of people who come to your church?
Hernando Munoz (45:13.8)
Yes, I think it's very diverse in terms of spiritual journeys, very diverse and also culturally because we're Latinos from different countries and also different moments in the immigration journey, which is also very determining. It's very different to ministry to someone that just arrived to Canada.
Rob Chartrand (45:20.813)
Mm-hmm.
Rob Chartrand (45:28.492)
Right.
Hernando Munoz (45:43.23)
to someone that has been in Canada for 20 years and they are in the same church. But I think we go back to the centrality of the gospel that speaks to everyone, no matter where they are in the journey of faith. And then, yeah, there is other work that we have to do to kind of learning together how we are one church, because we need to learn to be with others.
Rob Chartrand (45:57.432)
Yeah. Amen.
Hernando Munoz (46:13.468)
and to understand our own culture, our own journeys so we can live life together. So I think that's one of the parts that in a congregation that is so diverse spiritually in different parts of the Christian body and then also from different countries and different moments in the immigration journey is...
It takes some time, but yeah, we come together to the same point where we all need Jesus, we all need God. We're here because He's here and the Holy Spirit makes it work wonderfully. If we focus on worshiping Jesus, we all grow, we all experience God in our lives and ultimately He makes the church happen. He makes the church possible.
Without Him it's impossible. Without the Holy Spirit the Church falls apart. that's our card to leaning to looking after God's presence every Sunday, every time whenever things are not working well, going back to, okay, let's focus on what we need to be focused, that is Jesus and His Kingdom.
Rob Chartrand (47:34.641)
So is there a diversity of social economic status as well in your church?
Hernando Munoz (47:40.232)
Well, yeah, the more recent people, more recent immigrants, they need everything. And the first years, I mean, it's very hard to start a new life in a new country. Just the basic stuff is very hard. The language is very hard to acquire. Education is very hard. Just to find yourself.
Rob Chartrand (47:47.2)
Mm-hmm.
Hernando Munoz (48:05.606)
in a new country in a way that you're accountable with the minimum requirements takes years. So people in those places, really, they're looking for survival jobs and they need to learn English. So it's hard to live if you need to learn the language. So it's hard choices. Either you work or you study English.
But then if you only study English, you're stuck with the same job. So those kind of, it's a very difficult journey to come as a newcomer. And then the more established people, yeah, they have made Canada their home. They feel very comfortable here. They look back to their countries just as a place where maybe they go and visit, have vacations, connect with their families.
but their kids are now going to college universities here in Canada. So those are very kind of our more diverse groups, the e-commerce ones and then the more established ones. And there's all kinds of different life conditions for them as well.
Rob Chartrand (49:12.301)
Hmm.
Rob Chartrand (49:19.468)
Yeah. Are any from Latin America seeking refugee status?
Hernando Munoz (49:26.556)
yeah, we actually have, we have had in the past years, some of the top refugee countries in Canada from Latin America. So my home country, Colombia, when I came, it was the top, like before maybe 10, 15 years ago, it was the top country and it still is very welcome. People coming from Colombia now is Venezuela. So we.
Rob Chartrand (49:35.864)
Hmm. Yep.
Hernando Munoz (49:54.44)
We see families from Venezuela. I those are our two largest communities in the church as well. And they were mainly coming through refugee immigration dynamics. And that's pumping immigration a lot from Latin America. It's just red people coming from very difficult places. I mean, there is a country that we see often in the news now.
in war, but Latin America has been in war for many years and with many other problems. So that's one of the reasons why, I mean, there is a lot of opportunity in Hispanic ministries because there is large communities coming from Latin America now, particularly Venezuela is a large one and not only to Canada, but they are all over the world.
And I feel it's a huge blessing for them to be able to arrive to Canada being accepted, welcomed, and start a new life.
Rob Chartrand (50:59.672)
So how is your church helping new Canadians, Latin American Canadians with the challenges that they're facing as immigrants?
Hernando Munoz (51:11.434)
So I think from within the congregation, because most of us have come through the same journey, we know how it is. And also we know where we find help. So there is a lot of sharing of information. If you come in for the first time, just recently arrived, you're looking for a lawyer, you're looking for school, you're looking for a food bank, you're looking for shelter, you're looking for, yeah.
Rob Chartrand (51:37.208)
furniture. Yeah.
Hernando Munoz (51:40.274)
So everybody has gone through that. So there is a lot of sharing of that information.
Rob Chartrand (51:46.956)
And if you're in Canada, you're looking for a parka and good boots? Just stay warm.
Hernando Munoz (51:51.462)
Yes, yeah, I mean, you're coming from the sun, you're coming from and all of that. that, yeah, that basic information is very valuable, is very important. And familiarity, hospitality is being able to be together, share a meal together. That's very important. And then from our global church here at the FAC, there is a sponsorship.
Rob Chartrand (51:57.293)
Yeah.
Rob Chartrand (52:03.661)
Hmm.
Hernando Munoz (52:19.316)
program that is very strong, that the church supports very well, and it also is targeting those countries that are arriving in difficult times. So that's very intentional here happening in the church. And then, yeah, there is all kinds of support programs from our global church that we can share with our Latino community.
Rob Chartrand (52:23.523)
Hmm.
Rob Chartrand (52:46.569)
So other churches that might want to help new Canadians, any advice you'd give to them about how they might bless immigrant churches or new Canadians?
Hernando Munoz (53:01.554)
I think from my journey as an immigrant and seeing the church here in my journey from different angles, I think it has blessed me so much, the church open arms. I think that is huge and I think that's already established. I think for the most part, Canadians understand other cultures.
Rob Chartrand (53:21.293)
Hmm.
Hernando Munoz (53:29.95)
just by being one of the most multicultural countries in the world. think most Canadians, by having people from other countries in their neighbors, their kids, classmates, and colleges. So I think that open arms posture that Canadians have by nature, hospitality is huge in this country, humanitarian response is huge in this country. That is something that...
Canadian church is already doing, they already have their gift. I will say one thing is that just to recognize, thank God, or because I've been very blessed by that, by the gift of the Canadian church by being hospitable by nature. And the other is like whenever they feel, because God has different callings for everyone in different places, but whenever someone might feel that God is knocking to the door.
Rob Chartrand (54:02.286)
you
Hernando Munoz (54:26.218)
for them to open it to a specific community. I will say trust God. mean, really learning to do multicultural ministry is a science. I mean, I don't think every pastor or everybody have that knowledge per se, but we all have the spirit of God that moves towards others. So I will just say if that's...
someone out there, a pastor that has been thinking about that. I will say that's God's God's heart moves for those who are coming to our doors and moving from other places. And even if they don't have it all, if they don't know, they don't need to. But my invitation will be follow that and enjoy it. It's a fun ride. It's a beautiful journey to dive into.
And it is a responsibility as well. It's part of the Great Commission too. So, and on the road, God will provide. God will bring, God will teach us. We will learn, like don't be afraid to just learn and be open. And as much as the Canadian church needs to learn to work with immigrant churches, the immigrant church also needs to learn how to
be part of the Canadian church, which is also important that we can also integrate to a Canadian church, to the Canadian culture. So it's a process. It's not an easy process. It's very complex, but I feel where there is a vision from God and God has just touched hard to do it. There is great opportunity for both sides. So the Canadian church blesses an immigrant church.
But then also the immigrant church brings something that will sparkle things in the Canadian church and this ripple effect that that will continue working and extending the kingdom.
Rob Chartrand (56:30.124)
Yeah.
Rob Chartrand (56:35.33)
Yeah, I mean, and there's so much you can learn and experience from new Canadian churches. And so to have that listening and that humble posture is just so very important. What is God doing in Latin America today? Some of our listeners might not be aware of just how much has changed in just a few very short decades in Latin America.
Hernando Munoz (57:03.774)
Yeah, so I can give an example, first-hand example, experiences when we came to faith three years ago in Bogota. This is Bogota, Colombia is the capital of Colombia. And our church was one of the fewest churches in Bogota. And it was a very large church. was 500 people at that moment. that to today, this ministry has grown to
been a ministry of 70,000 people in Bogota in 30 years. So the growth has been just dramatic. And there is other maybe five, six churches the same size in Colombia. Multiple churches have grown, denominations have been established, media, schools, so really even politics and
Rob Chartrand (57:37.923)
Wow.
Hernando Munoz (58:03.86)
people being able to enter the political arena as Christians, which I was saying three years ago, we had a declaration in the constitution saying this is a Catholic country. So things like that has changed very fast. So I feel now people from Latin America are also now looking outside and sending missionaries.
international workers to other parts of the world. So I will say a region that just 34 years ago was a mission field primarily, very unreachable, has now turned into a sending region, sending workers into the world in 34 years. So that's just the pace of how things are changing. yeah, there is, it changed the climate. There is still
Rob Chartrand (58:49.218)
Hmm. Amazing.
Hernando Munoz (59:02.438)
lot of things that need a lot of prayer intervention, a lot of problems and troubles and instability that we can see, but God's work has not stopped. Even the world is getting worse and worse, God's church keeps growing and growing. And Latin America is a testament of how God is visiting this region of the world in much need, in spiritual need.
But now there is solid ministries coming out of Latin America and expanding into the world as well. it creates other needs as well, theological training. I don't know, but it's been a real gift.
Rob Chartrand (59:39.938)
Yeah.
Rob Chartrand (59:45.038)
You right? Yeah.
Rob Chartrand (59:51.33)
Yeah. Well, and if you turn back the clock to say the early 1900s, the center of Christianity in the world, in other words, where there were the most Christians and Christianity had the greatest influence was Europe and North America. But now you fast forward to 2010 and now to 2024, the center of the Christianity is no longer there in the Western world. It's in Africa, South America, and Asia.
Like that's where God is working the most in the world today. It's incredible.
Hernando Munoz (01:00:25.704)
Yeah, think, I mean, it all connects, I guess, because a lot of the revivals and work that began in America, Europe had a benefit in the southern hemispheres.
Rob Chartrand (01:00:44.172)
Yeah. Well, talk to us about that. have your, you have your, yeah, you're working on your PhD dissertation or you finished it and this is kind of an area of expertise to you. So talk to us about the neo-charismatic movement, third wave Pentecostalism and the effect on Latin America.
Hernando Munoz (01:01:04.18)
Well, very much of Christianity in the Southern Hemisphere is what we would call Pentecostal Charismatic Christianity. basically, it's just to say or just to look at how really God's operation in the world was so remarkable and is so evident that that was kind of what changed hearts.
Rob Chartrand (01:01:14.54)
Hmm.
Hernando Munoz (01:01:33.822)
There is not the time in Latin America, there was not the time to establish institutions or develop tradition. None of that was there. It was preaching, preaching of the gospel by people from North America and Europe who moved in the spirit of free Bible, actually.
They were radical. They gave everything. They trust everything. And they knew God was in the move and the gospel needed to be preached in order to fulfill the Great Commission. So it was out of this revivalist heart and intention that the more traditional churches moved to reach the world. And out of that came Christianity in the Southern Hemisphere.
I think it's a very fresh expression of Christianity. It came out of love from European, American churches, but from God and just how God has manifest because then there is historical strongholds in these regions that have been in darkness for so long. mean, can you imagine that?
2000 years of Christianity and only after 2000 years we can say that there is a significant expression of Christ Church in these areas. That's a lot of years for regions where we have enjoyed these countries being established on the foundations of Christianity and the word of God. We didn't have that. didn't have we
And the expression that we received, it was a very conquest. It came through violence and all of that. So, I mean, there was a lot of need and only a mighty word of God could have done that. And God has manifested vastly in doing this work.
Rob Chartrand (01:03:36.268)
Right. Yeah.
Hernando Munoz (01:03:57.276)
I think something that I was writing about in my schoolwork is how we write a theology that is birthed out of this context, that is not built on, I mean, on the one part, we do follow a tradition of Christian theology, because there is a tradition of Christian theology, but on the other side, we're so different.
Rob Chartrand (01:04:18.563)
Mm-hmm.
Hernando Munoz (01:04:24.05)
in culture, in how we perceive God. We have so different sensibilities, how we approach to God and how we tell the story of God from our own culture and our own hearts. So that was one part of my studies, kind of trying to write a perspective, a theological perspective that represents Latino culture. And the whole point is we start by experience. We don't start by rationality or by...
Rob Chartrand (01:04:45.293)
Hmm.
Hernando Munoz (01:04:52.358)
systems, we actually start by experience. And we believe, we can believe experience actually are proper grounds to recognize God's move and then build theology, of course, in line with Biblicals, our Biblical scriptures and other theology. So that's where I was reflecting on my work is, well, what can we learn from this experience of people being transformed?
Rob Chartrand (01:05:15.694)
Hmm.
Hernando Munoz (01:05:22.308)
The key idea in my writing is transformation of lives as they were to the Holy Spirit. How can we build a theology of that?
Rob Chartrand (01:05:31.48)
So I didn't prep you for this, what was one of your best discoveries in doing this dissertation journey?
Hernando Munoz (01:05:39.446)
I think it wasn't actually, I mean, it's nothing new, but it was more like solidify something that actually transformations of life are the work of the Holy Spirit. And this is something, I mean, we say it and it sounds like, of course it is, but then there is a theology. There is a theology of God's action in the world. When we say God changed people,
I mean, there is a theology, there is a strong theology of that. And there is a theology in something that we share very much in Christian theology that is salvation. And it's to say, actually, transformations of lives is salvation. It's just salvation in display. And if we hear someone's testimony, we can actually build theology out of that, because that's salvation in display. And we can also learn of
God's operation in the world through the Holy Spirit, how he changed lives, how he acts. So that was kind of what I was getting at with transformation of life of the Holy Spirit.
Rob Chartrand (01:06:46.252)
Yeah. So good. Yeah. Well, I just marvel at like in one lifetime, like, since like the 80s, what God has done in Latin America is just it's astounding astounding.
Hernando Munoz (01:07:03.369)
Yeah.
Rob Chartrand (01:07:04.844)
So I wonder as we finish up here, if you could share a final word of encouragement with our ministry leaders. There are people listening in from all across Canada on this day and just share a final word of encouragement for them.
Hernando Munoz (01:07:20.586)
Yeah, no, and thank you so much, Rob, for letting me share my story and just looking today at the story of the Latin American church in Canada and this community. I think we can be very encouraged for what God is doing in the world. And, you know, I think we can now that we know how the church is growing in the
southern hemispheres look at that and say, look what God is doing out there, but what about here? And I think for me, moving from Latin America to Canada, Canada has become my home, the country that I pray for, the country where we stand as a church. This is my land. This is my country for me that I kind of have taken.
and have claimed for God. And I think we have our own struggles culturally with being a voice or losing our voice, our Christian voice in the society and culture. But I'm very encouraged and seeing God at work in my midst, in my church and really God's kingdom.
is many times working in invisible ways or ways that are not perceived publicly or out there but it doesn't stop, the kingdom of God doesn't stop and there is seasons, we go through different seasons sometimes we see more fruit sometimes we don't but the work is good the good seed, the seed is good the seed is good and it will bear fruit and
I feel so much that we are to protect our hearts, like even personally, because it's not an easy task. mean, we're against all the darkness and against many things in the world, but I feel it's good to protect our hearts and just being hopeful and cheerful for the things that God has in store for each one of us.
Hernando Munoz (01:09:44.594)
Certainly he's the Lord of the world. Certainly he's moving powerfully. And I don't know what God might be speaking to anyone. I think he speaks differently to everyone. But I think we're doing something good in taking courage and trusting in God and his reality. Going back to what we have experienced in Latin America, we didn't have seminars, we didn't have
traditions we didn't have, Christianity in the school we didn't have, Christianity out there. We were against the current all the way, but Greater was the one that was, you know, with his people. So I think no matter what we are facing up, what God is bringing or what is in front of us, there is greater power on us. And that's something we trust.
Rob Chartrand (01:10:37.176)
Hmm.
Hernando Munoz (01:10:42.302)
We trust God. God is greater. Greater is His power on us. And He'll give us every provision that we need. And when we're in ministry, He gives us, He has more resources and more opportunities than what we might need. But there is seasons and yeah, if we keep waiting or distrust what the Lord does, we'll see the fruit of the ministry. that's my prayer for everyone.
they will see fruitful ministry in their lives and will be encouraged for what the Lord is doing with them.
Rob Chartrand (01:11:17.942)
Amen. Amen. Good word, Hernando Munoz, thank you for joining us on Church in the North.
Hernando Munoz (01:11:25.714)
My pleasure Rob and thank you so much for letting me share it and for the time together.
Rob Chartrand (01:11:32.246)
Amen.