Rob Chartrand (00:03.696)
Well, it's so great to have with us on the podcast, Sid Koop. Sid Koop is the executive director of Youth Worker Community. Sid, good morning and welcome to the Church in the North podcast.
Sid Koop (00:17.126)
Dude Rob, thank you so much. This is a privilege to be here with you, bro. I appreciate the work you do so much And I'm excited to be on the podcast today, man. This is great
Rob Chartrand (00:25.76)
Awesome, well, I'm not sure if all of our listeners know who you are. I know a lot of youth workers across the country definitely know who you are, but maybe some of our listeners don't. So let's get started with you telling us about youth worker community. What is it that you guys do?
Sid Koop (00:42.77)
Yeah, Youth Worker Community, Rob, exists to encourage and equip youth workers to better disciple kids that, you know, God's placed in their care. It comes under the umbrella of our organization called Truth Matters Ministries, which was really focused on helping the next generation see and experience the truth of Jesus Christ. So when we talk about discipling kids, we talk about them seeing and experiencing the truth of Jesus, you know, in a transforming way. And we just believe so strongly that next to parents, youth workers are best positioned
you know, relationally to help kids experience Jesus. And especially Rob, we have a high affinity for volunteer youth workers. So again, we know in a healthy youth ministry that volunteer youth workers can be positioned in the best relational space to disciple students. But I know for me, when I was youth pastoring, Rob, I didn't always have the professional development funds to get them the kind of training to help them really steward that well. And so we just have a commitment to come alongside youth ministries.
help encourage and equip their youth workers, make it affordable and accessible. And we love supporting the church, man. Like this is what I get really excited about. So it keeps me up at nights. And I'm really thankful that we've been given kind of this season to be able to do that a little bit.
Rob Chartrand (01:54.68)
Awesome, awesome. And you know, we're gonna do a deep dive on different parts of youth worker community in a few minutes here in our conversation. But let's talk about you, Sid. You are, you... You're working with youth, but you're no spring chicken. I mean, you're pretty old for a youth guy.
Sid Koop (02:04.259)
Okay, we're gonna find more exciting topics, I'm sure, but sure, let's hit this for a bit.
Sid Koop (02:18.788)
That's what my niece said when I tried to get out of bed this morning. They let me know. Yeah, for sure.
Rob Chartrand (02:25.416)
Oh, yeah. Hey, how long have you been involved with youth ministry? And why don't you just kind of walk us through the big high level topography of your ministry journey?
Sid Koop (02:34.282)
Yeah. Yeah, full. So first of all, Rob, I just turned the big five over this past year. So we're half a century in, you know what I'm saying? And you feel that? That's right. You understand. It's good. It's good space. By the way, it's good space to be in. So I've been doing youth ministry. Now I was thinking about it kind of between like 25 to 30 years, depending on when you count the start to vocational ministry. But so quick story grew up in a little town in Manitoba called Elkhorn, Manitoba, about 500 people, my dad, who was like this Mennonite lay pastors.
Rob Chartrand (02:39.14)
Yes. Welcome to the club. Yeah.
Sid Koop (03:03.346)
started the first kind of evangelical church with a Pentecostal lay pastor in our town of 500. And I grew up in a church of about 30 people and we never had a youth ministry. So I didn't even know really what a youth pastor was, but I loved going to camp, God Youth Camp to really change my life. So that was significant. And then in our family, we all went to Bible college for at least a year. So I went to Briar Crest after I graduated.
And then when I was at Briar Crest, people started saying to me, Hey, Sid, you should think about youth ministry. You might be a little bit wired for it. So I just said, Lord, I'm in with whatever you want, but I'll head towards what I know and you can, you know, move the ship if you want. So I was going to be a phys ed teacher, took off to university with volunteering with youth for Christ while I was at university, which was super good. And then I'll never forget the moment in class when I felt like God said, Hey, I need you to do vocational youth ministry. And I got out of that class.
I phoned back my mentor at Briar Crest said, Hey, I got to come back. Got to get my letters, got to get mentored. I got to like, try out these gifts to see how this all works. So I went back to Briar Crest. Uh, when I finished up, I worked with Youthquake for two years at Briar Crest, which was transforming for me. I lived in the high school dorm when I was at Briar Crest, which was fantastic as well. I loved that. That was all very shaping. And then when I finished, uh, there, I went to Canmore.
And I got to start Rob in a little church in Canmore, an AGC church. It never had a youth pastor before. We had five senior high students, 11 junior high, and started there, which was awesome. I was in Canmore for four years. And about my second year in, I had a buddy start calling me every month saying, Sid, you should go into full-time speaking. I was like, no way, dude. And then at the end of the year, he calls me and says, I've talked to my dad. We're going to finance a ministry for you. So you got to start it.
So that's how this thing began. We prayed about it. Our church prayed about it for a month. We said, let's do it. So for a year, I just traveled and spoke at camps and retreats and that sort of thing, but I missed the local church. Ended up then going to Lethbridge and part-time oversaw the student ministry in Lethbridge for 11 years, part-time traveled and spoke. At the end of 11 years, we decided to go full-time with what was then known as Truth Matters Ministries. And we began to really...
Rob Chartrand (04:48.796)
Hmm. Wow.
Sid Koop (05:17.71)
push our youth worker community side of it. We started doing our regional conferences with youth worker community. Once I'd been there for about a year or so, then we started leaning into some other projects. And so we've been in Kelowna now for 10 years, Rob, and continuing to do this work that we've, that we're pretty excited about God having led us into. So it's been about 25 years plus that we've been in this space and pretty fun to be doing it.
Rob Chartrand (05:42.96)
Wow.
Yeah, wow. Well, I can't get past gym teacher in my mind. I have this image of you with a big delicious mustache wearing a white t-shirt and short, short red shorts with knee high socks with stripes on them and a whistle around your neck and a red rubber ball under your arm. That's all I see.
Sid Koop (05:52.689)
Right? Dude, that's why.
Sid Koop (05:58.454)
Oh-ho!
Sid Koop (06:05.686)
Rob, listen bro, true story, true story. I'm in high school, my little town, I'm playing volleyball and I get to go play on this regional team which doesn't mean anything, but I remember the moment, Rob, when I realized my shorts are too short. I remember the exact moment when I'm on the court and I'm like, whoa, this has gotta come to an end real quick, so yeah, your vision is quite correct. You're pretty solid on that.
Rob Chartrand (06:34.82)
Yeah, yeah, I affirm your calling now, it's great. Now your wife is also in ministry with you. I mean, she's got a significant role as the director of Green Bay, is that right?
Sid Koop (06:39.327)
Thanks, buddy. Appreciate that.
Sid Koop (06:46.782)
Well dude, yeah, so this is crazy, right? So Jen loves youth ministry. In fact, funny story, Rob, when I'm in Lethbridge, you know, I'm kinda wrestling with should I stay in youth ministry or not. Church has given me a couple of opportunities to kinda shift my roles. And Jen tells me afterwards, it was a little bit of a crisis for her because she's like, Sid, I love youth ministry. She was volunteering at the time. Stay at home, Mom, we were doing our thing.
And then we traveled together and she just goes, I loved it so much, but I wasn't going to quit working in the youth ministry. So I just thought for the first time, we'll kind of go separate tracks. So we ended up going to Kelowna and I'd always thought Rob, that maybe God would give me a run as a director of a camp. That's kind of was in the back of my head because I love camp so much. Well, we've been living at camp. Yeah. For like 10 years, eight years actually, but I'm not the director. My wife is. So Jen is the executive director of Green Bay Bible Camp. Just does an amazing job. Like.
So blessed to do it and be with her. And then two years ago, she, it's a thank you, yeah. And two years ago, she hired our organization to oversee the leadership development and discipleship of staff. So bro, I didn't know if I could do it, but like in the summers, you know, we're on site by 7 a.m. and we're in bed by 11 p.m. And it is one of like the most life-giving experiences I've had to work with these young leaders, see God do like powerful work in them, see them stretched.
Rob Chartrand (07:40.784)
Yeah, it's a great camp.
Sid Koop (08:08.074)
see them expand the capacities beyond what they thought possible and experience Jesus doing something in and through them that they didn't have an imagination for. And I gotta tell you Rob, I don't know how long we're gonna be able to do it. This gray ain't going away if that makes, hey, didn't even that run. But right now it's been one of the most precious places for me to do youth ministry work on the ground.
Rob Chartrand (08:22.565)
Yeah, yeah.
Sid Koop (08:32.546)
and it's shaping me. So I'm really thankful that the Lord is not even close to being done shaping me through this space and I'm really thankful for it. So we're in this kind of neat space right now at the camp which has been pretty cool.
Rob Chartrand (08:42.552)
Yeah, that's great. Well, and I'm sure there's lots of tension in doing it as well, because at camp you run hard and you're troubleshooting all the time. And I mean, it's super busy, but super rewarding.
Sid Koop (08:54.77)
You nailed it. Yeah, and you know what you see God show up like because everything's moving fast. It's intense There's pressure and these are young kids You know what I mean that you're working with and even for me Rob like it's funny as generations shift and change You know some of the principles of leadership that work maybe five or ten years ago Also, and I'm realizing don't work in quite the same way And so I'm having to take a step back and go. Oh that didn't go quite the way. I thought it was
Okay, what's the other angle that I need to come at this Lord? Give me wisdom. How do I help lead these kids? Well, how do we lead together with our team? You know? And so again, like, um, it's a real space of growth for me that I'm very, very thankful for.
Rob Chartrand (09:38.355)
Hmm.
Well, last week was a pretty significant event happening in terms of our national youth scene in Vancouver. It was the Canadian Youth Pastors Summit, the Western version. There's an East version coming up that the Western version was on. And I'm really interested in knowing what went on there. Why don't you tell us, first of all, what is it all about? I mean, what is the purpose kind of this summit thing? And give us a bit of a highlight reel.
Sid Koop (10:05.004)
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah, so probably about, well, my friend Jason Ballard, and most people in youth ministry know about Jason Ballard. He and they started, they did the Youth Alpha video series, Jason and Ben Woodman, you know, a number of years ago, and they did version two, etc, etc. So that's kind of, you know, a space that people know Jason from. Jason works at the Way Church and also runs an organization called the Canadian Church Leaders Network.
And we had just been talking together. He'd overlapped with us in the youth worker community for a number of years, being a part of our events. And then he just said, Hey, said like got a vision to do something for youth pastors in particular. And I was like, Jay, I think it's cool idea. So we partnered with CCLN to run the youth pastor summit. We did it the first time last year, and this was our second year. We had about 120 youth, youth pastors in the room. So we were very clear on, on who our audience was going to be. We wanted to speak to youth pastors in particular.
in terms of helping them think about their ministries, not just think about specific kids and discipleship to kids, but how do we build ministries that can facilitate the work of our volunteers and discipling kids. So that's like another level of leadership that we're talking about. And then we knew that we needed to engage like the heart, we needed to engage the mind, and we needed to give them tools to do ministry. And so we designed two and a half days.
around how do we bring in speakers that have great understanding of great content, how do we create space for youth pastors to begin to workshop that content and figure out what it practically means in their ministry context, and allow them to work it out in community with other practitioners. And then not only that, but we also really wanted to make sure we created space where we could just do ministry, where we could do prayer ministry.
Sid Koop (11:59.83)
We could experience the Holy Spirit, you know, working on our hearts as well as working in our minds. And Rob, it was pretty cool. Like it was pretty intimate, very, very intentional. And partnering with CCLN means that it's going to be done well. Like there's a lot of thought into every minute of the experience, literally every minute of the experience. And so it was really great to be a part of that gathering.
of Youth Pastors, really thankful to do it and excited to do it in Mississauga in March. And Rob, I think like at our YWC conferences, which we'll talk about, we do a day of work with point leaders, but not in the same way as what we do at the Youth Pastors Summit. So we think the Youth Pastors Summit is phenomenal for working with youth pastors again, and then we kind of have like a journey with the other events that we're a part of in terms of what parts of the ministry does it focus on. So that was the Youth Pastors Summit.
and really thankful to have partnered with CCLN on it.
Rob Chartrand (12:58.34)
Yeah, yeah. So the summit is primarily the primary focus is the point person, the youth pastor or youth worker within a local church.
Sid Koop (13:08.715)
and specific youth pastor in a church. So that's a targeted context, Rob. We're serious about serving the local church. That's absolute critical and really important for us in that context, yeah.
Rob Chartrand (13:21.201)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So what you're saying then is youth pastors need somebody to care for them and to...
Sid Koop (13:26.414)
It's shocking, right? Well, let's see what they need. So, you know, Robbie, and you know this better than I do, but I was a little bit surprised at the value of community amongst peers in youth ministry as well. So to even gather for two and a half days and work together on things, and not just like work and workshop, but share ideas, share best practices. So, you know, I did a conversation around thinking about your culture, content, and architecture of your youth ministry.
Rob Chartrand (13:45.445)
Yeah.
Sid Koop (13:53.082)
And then, you know, we built up a Google Doc or a Google folder where all the youth pastors could put their best documents in, like job descriptions, strategies for onboarding new volunteers, you know, all that kind of calendars, plan to protect policies. So not only are you have like people from the front delivering content for youth pastors to process, but you're also creating space for youth pastors to share their best practices with each other and put it in a place where everyone can access it.
So it's kind of, you know, this is a unique day that we're living in where we can move this stuff this fast. And we just have to create spaces where we can facilitate this type of interaction. And it was really cool, it was really great.
Rob Chartrand (14:34.948)
Yeah, and I mean the danger with content, a day of, you know, where there's so much content is that people are reading it, but they're not processing it, and they're not doing it in community, right? So this provides a space where they can actually do that.
Sid Koop (14:42.978)
Correct.
Sid Koop (14:47.05)
Yeah, and I think what's unique about this, and this is something that I've been challenged on, is even when we program planned out the three days, Rob, like again, we're planning minutes. And so we just said, like I've always been a big content guy, let's make sure we get lots of content. You're not gonna get that necessarily anywhere else. And Jason just really pushed, no, let's create space to process the content and to think about it, and then to really consider what might be one or two next steps. So, you know, when we would do a main session that might be 40 minutes long, we've got another 20 minutes of processing that's a part of that.
Rob Chartrand (15:00.977)
You're welcome.
Sid Koop (15:16.958)
experience and it's guided processing, right? So, so you're, you know, that intentionality was really important. And I love it. It's, it's actually shaped the way that we do our other conferences now as well, where we're creating way more space for workshopping and interacting to happen between the youth workers themselves, because, you know, again, our rhythms are so busy when we're back kind of in the grind that it's hard for us to create the time and space for that kind of engagement to happen.
but we can do it in these kinds of spaces, these kind of places, and it's valuable, really valuable.
Rob Chartrand (15:47.0)
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's great. You know, culturally, I mean, well, worldwide, as a lot has happened with Gen Z, as a result of COVID. I mean, you think about two years of online content and, you know, being locked in our caves, and we've come out of our caves and kind of had to rebuild youth ministries across the country and rebuild relationships and whatnot. You know, now, now that we're about a year and a half out,
Sid Koop (16:05.219)
Ha!
Rob Chartrand (16:14.32)
and you know, as you think about the country and you look across and you see what God's doing, anything you'd say that you're inspired by, by within our youth ministries?
Sid Koop (16:24.002)
Yeah, I am. So I think one of the things that I'm starting to see and Rob, like Jen and I volunteer in a youth ministry in Kelowna. It's funny, we became empty nesters this last year and I found myself lying on the couch in the middle of the week and I'm like, ah, this isn't the place I want to be. So it's got to be another space we can fill a little bit. But a couple of things that I think I'm observing and I want to be careful because it's within my periphery.
But one of the things I'm observing is that kids want to gather again. And so it seems like kids are showing up in the youth ministries I'm in. Kids are, you know, are gathering in numbers that were like pre-COVID-esque in a lot of spaces. Camps are the same thing. When we talk to camps, we're seeing that kids are registering and camps are filling up. So the one thing I'm seeing that excites me is kids are coming together. The second thing that I'm hopeful for then...
Rob Chartrand (16:52.605)
Mm-hmm.
Sid Koop (17:17.59)
Well, one of the things I think that we learned or I hope we learned was that like our program Isn't what wins the day when it comes to discipling kids. It's actually our people so I'm what I'm hoping for and I'm sensing is that there is a new focus on as a youth pastor How do I actually equip and prepare my people my volunteers and how do I facilitate? Their discipling ministry with our students
And so, you know, the language that we would use, Rob, is we would say, do you see your volunteers there to serve you or are you there to serve your volunteers in their ministry? And I think that shift is happening and that really excites me because then I think we can see life change take place because we know that life change happens best in the context of relationship. Like God's designed us for that. And I think ministries are waking up to that. I think what I, what I hope happened is that COVID showed us
how fragile our systems and structures are sometimes. And it's important to have good systems and structures. You gotta do it. But they're there to facilitate, you know, people to people ministry and within our youth ministries. And I think that there's a strong movement there. So, you know, one of the ways that I get to see that, Rob, that encourages me, and this isn't the absolute indicator, but you know, we've got a conference coming up in Winnipeg for volunteer youth workers.
And it took us a long time to convince point leaders that it was really valuable to bring their volunteers to an event like this, that that's actually who it's for to help them as they lead their team. And this year in Winnipeg, I think we have more than we've ever had even pre-COVID. So that to me is just a, that can be an indicator to say that we realize as youth pastors that our primary job isn't facilitating a program
Rob Chartrand (19:00.712)
Mm. Wow.
Sid Koop (19:13.166)
kids, it's actually facilitating, it's creating a program that facilitates leaders with kids in our ministries. And if we can get that, then I have so much hope because if we're doing that, Rob, then our systems and our structures can break down, but the relationships can remain and we'll always find another way to stay in relationship and then be able to do discipleship. Now, I mean, you can get me going because we're asking for more from our volunteers than we've ever asked for before. We're asking more from our youth pastors in terms of shepherding.
Rob Chartrand (19:31.9)
Right. Yeah.
Sid Koop (19:43.198)
volunteers, do you know what I mean? And pastoring them. And, you know, like our volunteers, generally in a youth ministry, generally, your volunteers are usually young adults, like, or a majority of them are, depending on the location you're in, in our country, that can change. It could be parents, young adults. So, you know, you know, kids are dealing with more complex issues than they've ever dealt with before, which means that we probably have to spend more time investing in our leaders so that they can actually help those kids work through those complex issues they're dealing with. So we're asking more.
Rob Chartrand (19:44.616)
Yep.
Rob Chartrand (19:54.056)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Sid Koop (20:13.142)
from point leaders, we're asking more from volunteers, but I don't think we're asking anything more than what Jesus has asked of us. And the mission is real, like the mission is serious and significant. And you know, we say to volunteers, man, you give your life to this. Well, here's what I'm saying, Rob, it's funny, and I said this at the Youth Pastor Summit last week, I've been thinking about it. I always wondered as I did youth ministry, if I was missing out on something, do you know what I mean?
And I wondered if maybe I would do youth ministry for a while and then jump to something else because I might be missing out. And I'm 50 now. And I've said this before, Rob, like my personal family heritage is us, Coup men died pretty young. My dad died at 48 and my brother 55. Like it is a deal. I don't know. I'm hoping God gives me 70 or 80. The point is, I'm at a point right now where I think, you know what, if I, if God took me home, I don't think I've missed out on something.
Like, you know what I mean? Like, I don't think that I don't have to go looking for something because what we're doing really matters wherever we are. This, this is really significant and really important. And I hope that youth pastors, volunteers can have a sense of like, um, significance and purpose in what we're doing. And again, I think youth pastors are starting to design their youth. Like if it's just about playing a game or creating a fun game for a kid.
Rob Chartrand (21:08.232)
Hmm. Yeah.
Sid Koop (21:34.738)
I'm not sure that's worth giving our life to. You know what I mean? Like we should give an evening to that, but I don't know if we should give our life to it. But if we can see it more about something bigger and deeper, then yeah, it's worth it. And I think we're, I feel like we're leaning that way more and I'm excited about that.
Rob Chartrand (21:37.348)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
Rob Chartrand (21:48.048)
Yeah. Well, a lot of the camps that I speak to and even youth ministries, they say, well, their numbers are up, like even some of them, like record numbers. But their biggest challenge is actually finding the volunteers is getting the volunteers back to come and serve and to, to give into these, you know, pour into this next generation. You guys find that to be true in your spheres?
Sid Koop (21:56.426)
Huge. Yes.
Sid Koop (22:01.646)
Correct. Yeah.
Sid Koop (22:12.586)
Yeah, so here's what I think on that Rob, again, and this goes back a little bit to what we're talking about. I have a theory that says the volunteers are there if we can look after them the way we need to. So let's talk about camp for a second. I think what's happened at camp is oftentimes we've thought of our outcomes at camp primarily in terms of camper experience. What we're actually advocating for and challenging camps is to think about outcomes first and foremost in terms of the leadership development and the staff. So staff experience.
Rob Chartrand (22:24.497)
Mm-hmm.
Sid Koop (22:42.214)
If you do that well, you're going to get your camper experience plus plus, but you'll also get your staff back and you'll get the right kind of staff back. And so what I'm finding, you know, what I'm just seeing is camps that have made that shift that are really thinking intentionally about how do we invest in our staff? How do we equip our staff? How do we continue to disciple our staff that they're not having the same kind of problems in staff recruitment as maybe other places that aren't quite as intentional. So I think it does require a lot.
because again, we're asking a lot of them and people do have limited margins, so we have to make sure it's worth it. So just a couple of things on that. In a local youth ministry, man, your volunteers need to know what you're asking of them. So you have to clearly communicate, you have to remind them of the why, you gotta be inspiring them, you have to equip them, right? You gotta give them the tools they need to do what they're doing, which means you have to think about the structure of your youth ministry so that you can actually create space to do that kind of work.
Rob Chartrand (23:28.272)
Yeah, totally.
Sid Koop (23:40.73)
with them. So we are asking for a complex level of leadership in order to build the kind of ministries and environments that will continue to grow volunteers and bring more volunteers in. And what happens is when you do that, so when we take seriously these roles, volunteers realize that we're not just asking them to come in and be a good camp counselor, we're actually equipping them to be leaders.
to continue to lead at camp, but way beyond camp as well. So this becomes about life development. And I think what I'm sensing Rob is ministries that are kind of moving that way, thinking that way. They're not having the same kind of problem with volunteer retention or recruitment. But we don't get to assume on it, I think like we did pre-COVID. Like I think it's harder work to get there, but we can get there.
Rob Chartrand (24:11.101)
Hmm. Yeah.
Rob Chartrand (24:34.724)
Yeah, yeah. Well, I think the trend is towards them returning and coming back. But I think COVID just took the took the wind out of everyone's sails and they're just trying to find themselves again.
Sid Koop (24:45.482)
Yeah, and we're trying to rebuild the pipeline again, right? Like that's really key. So even for us at Green Bay, we found, you know, we did okay. Jen was really intentional and thoughtful about trying to maintain a type of pipeline through COVID, both with staff and with like, you know, campers to some degree and everyone fought and tried, you know what I mean? So I get that. But we just found again right now, like, oh, we feel like our leadership pipeline is re-stabilizing itself. You know, last year,
was our first year post COVID where we kind of had, you know, we had the freedom to program and function as pre-COVID. And then this year we got to build on it. And so we have more staff at camp this summer, I think than we've ever had, Ron. And you know, you always just try to turn the dial up 10% every year or whatever, whether you're in a youth ministry or in a camp, like just, you just think about how can I, how can I just be a little bit more intentional each year? And we're seeing that start to pay off where again,
you know, like for someone who's never been a part of Green Bay to come on staff, it'll be a little harder now than it was before because we've got a whole bunch of kids coming up the pipeline that I think are pretty excited to return. Not exclusively, but you get it. And I think camps that are doing that are, wait, we'll never have enough staff. Don't get me wrong. We're always going to work. The Lord's going to push us to our knees and we're going to have to pray.
Rob Chartrand (26:05.424)
Yeah.
Sid Koop (26:09.194)
And there are very few youth ministries that say, whoa, I got too many good volunteers. That doesn't exist. Don't get me wrong. But I'm very hopeful for creating spaces that can grow and develop leaders that want to invest in ministry. I'm really hopeful for that wrong.
Rob Chartrand (26:27.268)
Yeah. And I mean, if you've got two years of disruption in the pipeline, like so, you know, students, student, you lose student leaders who would eventually become young adult leaders and whatnot. And you're, it's hard to kind of recoup all of that. Um, but yeah.
Sid Koop (26:31.857)
Oh dude.
Sid Koop (26:41.134)
Super hard. And the other thing we're dealing with too, Rob, is like people are in recovery. Like, you know, Rob, I just said to someone the other day, you know, for me, the last year and a half been hard, dude. Like I would say that I was in a personal space that was like some of the lowest I've ever been in. It felt like I was, you know, walking in mud up to my knees constantly and just trying to get enough energy to take a next step, if I'm really honest about it. God was doing some deep work that he needed to do in my life. And
You know, and there's lots of reasons for that. But I would say like it was kind of this past June where also I felt like, Hey, I can breathe again. And I actually have an ability to see, you know, a little bit farther than just my next step. And so, you know, and as I talked to other people who are leading in ministry, it's funny, cause it's hard for us to really articulate what was taking place or why that was happening, but we feel it. And, and I do think for those who kind of stayed the course and
you know, got on their knees and continued to like fight and remain. It does feel like there's a collective sense of breathing again. But the point is we all brought that in to kind of the last two years and we're all, there's a little bit of recovery that's happening and people are starting to, I think kind of get their breath again a little bit. I'm hopeful for that. So it's been tough all across the board. Yeah.
Rob Chartrand (27:58.724)
Yeah. Well, I mean, we're supposed to be talking about what's inspiring us. So the fact that we're seeing these, you know, these returns and whatnot, I mean, that is inspiring. I mean, even youthquake at Briar Crest this last summer, record numbers of students showing up and it's like, what is with that? We thought we thought the days of conferences were maybe kind of behind us. I know that was reality in Edmonton. I mean,
Sid Koop (28:04.339)
Ha ha!
Sid Koop (28:12.034)
Super inspiring.
Dude.
Yeah.
Rob Chartrand (28:27.749)
But it seems like there's a resurgence of that all over the place people coming back
Sid Koop (28:31.83)
Well, and I think again, like Rob, when you keep consistently showing up in people's lives, honestly and authentically, with good mission, right? Nobody wants to have their time wasted, right? And with good mission and good intentionality, I think we're seeing fruit from that. And YouthQuake did that. One of the things that's pretty amazing, actually, about YouthQuake real quick is the intentionality in terms of transition of leadership and change management. So YouthQuake did a massive leadership shift and the largest kind of...
Rob Chartrand (28:38.214)
Mm-hmm.
Rob Chartrand (29:00.161)
Yep.
Sid Koop (29:01.294)
program change that YouthQuake has ever seen right in like the first year post COVID and God blessed it. Like blessed it seriously. So it's pretty amazing actually what's taking place there.
Rob Chartrand (29:13.336)
Yeah, they I mean, they changed the date by a couple of months. They, they divided into a junior high, senior high, like, added a whole new. And that's when students are gone, mostly, like, it's so it used to be in the middle of second semester, but now it's like right after the second semester. And so, you know, a lot of students are supposed to be gone, getting jobs and whatnot, but they stayed behind and they continue to volunteer to serve.
Sid Koop (29:22.795)
Yeah, they
Correct.
Sid Koop (29:35.342)
Amazing. Yeah, there's so many things about that whole, you guys should actually do an analysis of that. Oftentimes we do our processing and analyzing but things aren't going well. But I think there would be something to say about analyzing that kind of a shift that went really well and it's quite unique actually and could be helpful.
Rob Chartrand (29:53.24)
Yeah, yeah. Well, and I'll say to our listeners, if you or your student ministries are planning on going to YouthQuake this year, you better be lined up on the phone or online, ready to register because it is gonna sell out like quick. Like it sold out last year, and I think it will again this year very early. So yeah, make sure you, yeah. What's...
Sid Koop (30:06.849)
Yeah.
Sid Koop (30:14.246)
Yeah, it's so exciting. It's so good, dude. Hey, and Rob, let me put a plug in for it. Let me put a plug in for YouthQuick real quick as well, because this is my passion. Like not only is it really important for your students, it's phenomenal. And it's, listen, point leaders, and volunteer point leaders. One of the reasons YouthQuick is so important and was big to me, what caught me, is that someone did the programming that facilitated my shared experience with my students. And not just like a great, fun shared experience, which you need to have.
Rob Chartrand (30:25.084)
Mm-hmm.
Sid Koop (30:43.414)
That's a really important part. Kids should feel enjoyed. We should enjoy our kids. We should have fun playing together. I think it's holy work. But then very intentional in terms of like spiritual formation and faith engagement. And what I love so much, Rob, is I could be with my students in these moments when they were making important decisions that would allow me to journey with them beyond that experience. And so when I could bring my volunteers with students into an environment that was so intentionally crafted.
It was a huge gift to me and my ministry. So I think that's big. But then the second one too is like, YouthQuakes made a commitment to actually helping train youth workers while they're there. And so it's actually a great opportunity for you to invest in your youth workers as well. And I think you have to remind them that, hey, we're asking you to come and invest in our students. Absolutely. And it's worth it. It's gonna change your ministry with those kids. But we also wanna use this as a place to invest in you. And so there's gonna be some good opportunities to help you be encouraged and equipped for the work that God's calling you to do as well.
And YouthQuake has really been thoughtful about that whole journey, which I think is fantastic.
Rob Chartrand (31:42.436)
Yeah. And I think it's the timing of when it takes place is great. It's between winter sports and spring sports and there's not a lot else going on the calendar. It's post Easter. It's in a really good space where you can actually, and it's nice out. You're not in Saskatchewan when it's 30 below. Springtime.
Sid Koop (31:50.794)
Yep. Listen, Rob.
Sid Koop (31:59.126)
Bro, bro, how many youth quakes did I go to where I almost literally froze to death walking from the chapel to the gym. And that's like only like 10 steps. Like, seriously. So yeah, it is really wonderful to have some nice weather in that space, bro. I like it.
Rob Chartrand (32:11.82)
Yeah.
Rob Chartrand (32:17.572)
Yeah. Hey, let's get away from inspiration and let's talk about concerns. When you think about youth ministry now in this day, what are some of the concerns you're facing?
Sid Koop (32:26.762)
Yeah. Well, I think my biggest, I got a couple of big concerns. So I am concerned about the level of distraction that we have to fight with, just as a society as a whole. And I think I see it in my own life, as a person and as a leader, where my device is just a wonderful place for me to get lost in nothing. At the very best, I get lost in very low value content.
Rob Chartrand (32:48.394)
Mm-hmm.
Sid Koop (32:55.454)
at the very worst it's deeply self-destructive. And even what I'm finding Rob for me in that space is just the way, of course we all know this, this isn't new stuff, but the way that the platforms are designed, they deconstruct our ability to focus. So that's a concern to me. And I'll be like, right now I'm finding for myself Rob that I'm having to build new habits into my life to remove some of these non-helpful practices that in and of themselves aren't necessarily immoral. Like.
You know what I mean? Like not everyone that's online is into pornography. That's what I'm trying to say. But is it helpful? You know, Hebrews chapter 12, he says, get rid of the sin and whatever hinders you. So it's sin and the other things that are also hindering you. So I think that's a big concern. It's a concern for students, but it's also a concern for leaders and for pastors. You know, like I even think, you know, the ability to stay focused in preparation to like teach and lead is really hard work right now.
And I think we have to take that seriously. So if I'm thinking like that's a concern I have up there, my bigger concern, I would say, you know, there's a million concerns we all have. We can talk about the digital, we can talk about sexuality, we can talk about all those things. But for me at the very foundation is the way culture has pushed our understanding of identity formation. So that to me is like, I think that's the baseline issue, Rob. I think, you know, and we don't have time to unpack it all here, but you know, just thinking about the frameworks that...
that we need to think about when it comes to helping our students embrace, you know what many have called a gospel identity, I think is really important work. So, you know, just, you know, this quickly, culturally, we look in first for identity, what do I feel about myself? What do I, you know, what are our emotions saying about who I am? What's my, you know, whatever my disposition is that way. And then we'll look out to others to affirm what it is that we want to see about ourselves.
And by the way, we think that we're being true to ourselves, but really all we're doing is allowing culture to manipulate our emotions and tell us who we should be. And then we try to live within that very narrow definition of identity, if you will. And by the way, our students are terrified to step outside of that because as soon as you do, the culture cancels you just like that. So it's funny that we live in a time where we say you should have more freedom to be yourself, but how we allow you to define yourself is more narrow than we've ever seen it before.
Rob Chartrand (35:02.213)
Yes.
Sid Koop (35:12.638)
And the implications of stepping outside of that narrow definition is violence, like literal violence against you. So kids are feeling this pressure. It's crushing them. It's killing them. Whereas what the gospel identity says is we look up to God, our creator, the one who knows us better than knows ourself, and Jesus, the one who recreates us through his work on the cross. And when we can help kids see the beauty of Jesus and his voice becomes the loudest in terms of defining who we are, that can allow kids to be stable, strong, resilient.
They look in to understand what their desires are and what desires align with what God says about them. They invite the Holy Spirit to come in and do that transforming work so that their desires align with God's desires. That's what it means to be a new creation. Do you know what I mean? And then out of that place of strength and resilience, we can radically love the other, including the other that is actively against us. Like Jesus calls us to love our enemies. And when we have a gospel-focused identity,
we can love our enemy because what our enemy says about us doesn't own us anymore because what God says about us owns us. When we live in a modern identity within our current culture, whatever people say about us destroys us because they're attacking the core of who we are. So you can't love the other, you can only cancel the other, because that's the only way that we can emotionally feel like we can function. So Rob, I think, I really believe
always been the issue. We've just assumed on it for many generations. It's now so, it's part of the popular narrative and language. And so now, yeah, so now we can address it. I think that's our starting point, to be honest with you, or the foundation point that we need to be addressing in our ministries. And we have to think better about that. So.
Rob Chartrand (36:46.064)
Yeah, it's pervasive.
Rob Chartrand (36:56.912)
Now, is that a, I mean, that's a real challenge when you think you've got two or three hours a week with the youth in your ministry. And yet they, with it being so pervasive in, I mean, it's at every level, it's at the political level, it's at the educational level, it's in their phones, their social media, this narrative of expressive individualism and identity, self autonomy and the formation of your own identity and whatnot. And they come to a youth ministry.
Sid Koop (37:02.806)
Dude, for real.
Rob Chartrand (37:24.928)
And there's a 30 minute talk at most, maybe 20, because you want short attention spans. Like, how can a youth worker successfully help their young people with identity formation?
Sid Koop (37:36.505)
Yeah.
Yeah, really great. So I have a couple thoughts on that, shockingly. So first of all, Rob, we should not, I think right now we have to consider that the students whose families are already embedded in our church and the ministries, are students really well worth investing in, because what we're able to do is do something synergistic with parents, right? Where if we can, both groups can be collectively kind of speaking the same message, it could maybe result in something greater than the sum of the parts. So that's the first thing I think about.
Rob Chartrand (38:08.102)
That's right. Yeah, you've got to work with the families.
Sid Koop (38:08.226)
So like, you do, and that's why at camp too, we wanna really invest in staff because we think that's a really important ministry. You know what I mean? That has long-term consequences and effects and broad effects. The second thing I think about is let's never forget that the Holy Spirit is at work. And so his power is significantly greater than what we can dream or imagine. And he always works, almost always works in spite of us.
Rob Chartrand (38:14.338)
Yeah.
Sid Koop (38:33.383)
Third, we have to think about our ministries more intentionally, Rob. So I'm with you, dude. If we show up and we drop a quick 20-minute talk and it's not rooted in anything other than our cool ideas, then yeah, we've got some questions. You know what I mean? So I have lots of questions around how we're structuring our ministry. However, we also remember that a healthy youth ministry is more than just the program moments.
So in a really healthy youth ministry, when our leaders are able to connect outside of program moments, and there's lots of issues around that in terms of child protection policies, et cetera, et cetera. But when we can do that, that is powerful in the life of a young person, especially when our leaders model something that's rooted in the gospel and how they live. And then second, I think ministries have to really double down and recommit to teaching great spiritual practices and disciplines to our students.
Rob Chartrand (39:06.916)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Sid Koop (39:26.838)
so that their spiritual growth and development is more than just our program. We're working at our conferences this year with a young lady named Ebony Davies who did research on durable faith out of the states with our friend, Dave Ron. And really what they said is there's like four really critical spiritual practices or disciplines that we need to help our students embrace if they're going to develop resilient faith. And I think we need to go back to that. It's nothing new, there's nothing new under the sun.
Rob Chartrand (39:55.14)
No, no, it's not, but it's-
Sid Koop (39:55.878)
But, you know, yeah. But if we can equip our volunteers to do spiritual disciplines and they can pass those spiritual disciplines onto our students, real basic practices like getting in the scriptures, praying, testifying to Jesus, speaking about him, you know what I mean? Sabbath. I mean, here's the other thing that's blowing my mind, Rob, is there's such a wonderful resurgence in conversations around Sabbath. By the way, I don't need to hear it. I don't need that conviction in my life right now. But...
Rob Chartrand (40:22.405)
Hehehe
Sid Koop (40:23.146)
You know, the need for us to pause creates space to listen to the spirit speak, silence and solitude, you know, that kind of stuff. I actually think that like we need it more than ever because our lives are so loud and busy and I think kids are open to having those types of experiences because it's so different and unique and powerful and transforming. So anyways, I do have hope Rob. I don't have a time. I don't have much hope in like.
our quick hit in our program necessarily, at least not in some of the ways we've historically designed it. But I do have hope in what youth ministries in a local church partnering with families can do in the faith formation of a young person. And because of the power of the Holy Spirit, you know, so I do have lots of hope there.
Rob Chartrand (41:12.228)
Yeah, and I think don't underestimate the influence of youth workers who have healthy identities coming alongside young people and showing and telling a better story, right? And just that positive relational experience that they're going to have, just being immersed in that context, right?
Sid Koop (41:21.634)
Bro, massive.
Sid Koop (41:26.251)
Yeah.
Yes.
Sid Koop (41:35.606)
Yeah, Rob, we know this, like, you know, kids are asking the question. You know, if you come to a kid and say there's a God, the number one question isn't generally, well, prove it. That's not their primary response. Their primary response is, well, what difference does he make? And the place that they're looking to have that statement or question answered is in the lives of the most important older people around them. And so when volunteers live out an identity rooted in Jesus, that is powerful in the life of a young person.
And you know where that identity is really revealed, I think, Rob, in being able to show up as a non-anxious presence in a world that's pretty chaotic. Like when you have that kind of presence that's rooted in the gospel, man, is that ever powerful in the life of a young person. Which is, again, why we go back to the need for point leaders in ministries to be really discipling their volunteers so that those volunteers can model something powerful for their kids.
Rob Chartrand (42:12.353)
Yeah.
Rob Chartrand (42:29.508)
Yeah, that's so good. Yeah, and just a plug for that book, A Failure of Nerve, if anyone has not read that book, right? Talking about non-anxious presence and what we need more than ever. Written three decades ago, but so practical and real for today. So, Sid, I wanna talk a little bit more about youth worker community and the work that you guys do and zone in on a couple of key components of your work.
Sid Koop (42:34.964)
Right?
Sid Koop (42:42.994)
Right?
Rob Chartrand (42:56.796)
The first, let's talk about youth worker conferences that you host every year. What are those? Who are they for? Why should they matter?
Sid Koop (43:03.221)
Yeah.
Great. So we have a suite of conferences now that we're a part of, Rob. So we would say a suite, doesn't that sound nice? So, um, you know, so first of all, we've, um, uh, we, we've just had the opportunity to partner with today's teams in Toronto and oversee the, the today's teams conference, which has been going on for decades has a wonderful history. That's been really significant, especially in the Ontario region.
Rob Chartrand (43:10.609)
sweet. I like that.
Sid Koop (43:32.622)
and you know you gather about 800 youth workers, about 400 student leaders or so in that space it's awesome. So we love that. So that's a one-day event that's really great that's focusing on student leaders and volunteer youth workers primarily. And then we do another five conferences across Canada that's focused on volunteer leaders on a point leader bringing their volunteer leader to get them encouraged and equipped to better disciple their kids next week. So we do one in Vancouver.
We've got one coming up in Calgary, one in Saskatoon, one in Winnipeg, and one among them. And we try to make those affordable and accessible so you can bring your whole team. We raise a lot of money to help subsidize the cost so that you can bring your whole team to that event. On Friday, we do have a Focus Day on Point Leaders that just helps us think at about the 30,000 foot level and think practically about our ministry at the time where we get to work on it.
And then all day Saturday, Friday night and Saturday is about working in it with your volunteers. So you have like about 15 workshops to choose from. You get to build your own journey as a ministry, what's going to be best for your people. We have inspiration time and ministry time in our main sessions. And so those are those conferences. And then we do the summits for youth pastors. We partner with CCLN. And then we're also working with other organizations like Youth Quake and Change Conference.
to help do volunteer youth worker training in those environments where they're bringing their students to. So that's kind of how we see our work, Rob, at a conference level right now in Canada. And we're thankful to do it. We've been able to spread ourselves all the way across Southern Canada, if you will. We don't spend too much time up north yet. We should get there at some point in time. But we're not there just yet.
Rob Chartrand (45:03.729)
Yeah, yeah.
Rob Chartrand (45:19.428)
Yeah, yeah. So the youth worker community conferences, those five regional ones, I mean, I had a chance to go to those last year. And I just, I mean, I just love the work that you guys are doing. That just a variety of workshops and the kind of the inspiration at the beginning, the book ended, you know, with a launch and with a conclusion and wrap up and
What I love about it as well is the networking that takes place as well with different youth pastors from different places. So it's like a coming home, but it's regionalized, which is fantastic because then it's accessible to people who kind of live in the area. What would you say to youth to lead pastors? Why do you think it should be important to lead pastors to see their youth guys go to these regional events?
Sid Koop (45:48.009)
Yeah.
Sid Koop (46:00.318)
Oh dude, Rob, don't get me started bro. So here's what I think. Here's what I think we don't really, we were working. So we do some consulting with different churches and ministries and organizations. One of the things we're saying to churches and executive leaders is to say, hey, you really need to invest in your youth ministries and the training of your volunteer youth workers because they are going to be the lay leaders of your church for decades to come. And there is not a better place.
to do like small group leadership training than in your youth ministry. It's dynamic. You're working with people at really varying stages of development and life. The issues you're dealing with are significant and severe. And so you have to learn to shepherd and wisely shepherd. You're working with like a real complex group of different people, if you will, from parents to students, sometimes to teachers to other support workers.
So you have to be wise and varied in the way that you can communicate and interact. And then it's happening on a consistent ongoing basis. And there's great training that's happening for them. So we think that the conferences, Rob, are great for training a volunteer youth worker for the work they're doing now, but it's also actually training them for the kind of discipleship work that they're going to do for.
Rob Chartrand (47:05.905)
Right, yeah.
Sid Koop (47:23.718)
potentially the next number of decades within that local ministry context. So we just think that, you know, as a, as a pastor or an executive leader in a church, when you're making an investment to send your volunteers to a conference like this, you're not just investing in your youth ministry. You're actually investing in the leadership development of, of your church is actually what you're doing. And the payoff should be literally for years to come.
Rob Chartrand (47:46.512)
Yeah.
Sid Koop (47:52.018)
So, and I didn't even talk about the idea of how that's gonna change the way we disciple our kids. I'm just talking about like investing in lay leadership. Rob, you know that in many churches, right? We know this, that people are getting excited about doing leadership development of their lay leaders, which maybe means like a Saturday per year. Like, what does it mean? And so I think if we can think about layering that in the different areas of our ministries over a longer period of time.
Rob Chartrand (47:52.144)
Yeah, yeah, I love that.
Rob Chartrand (48:10.84)
Yeah.
Sid Koop (48:20.578)
then we can start mining the depth that we need to lead in our trenches.
Rob Chartrand (48:24.248)
Yeah, that's great. So what cities are you in again? Remind us.
Sid Koop (48:27.914)
Yeah, so we are in so hey, in a week we are well this weekend, we started Winnipeg. And then in two weeks, we're in Moncton. And then end of September, we're back in Saskatoon, Vancouver, and then Calgary for the three weeks from the end of September till the second weekend in end of January. Yes. What did I say? Yeah, no, no end of January. Thank you. And into February. Yeah, yeah, let's get that right. Totally, bro.
Rob Chartrand (48:42.719)
Yeah. You mean January.
Rob Chartrand (48:47.517)
September.
Rob Chartrand (48:53.572)
You got camp brain. It's you're thinking about the first week after camp. Yeah, totally. Yeah, those would be great. And, you know, there's something to be said about if you can invest in it every year, like the rhythms that you think of the story of Israel and how they had the festivals and these rhythms of spiritual development and all the participation. I think if churches can invest the funds.
Sid Koop (48:57.479)
Yeah, you nailed it. Yup.
Rob Chartrand (49:18.828)
and invest the time and just put it in the calendar and say that we're going to try and do this every year. Give it a few years and just see what God will do in the leaders in your church and in the young people in your church. And yeah.
Sid Koop (49:18.954)
Yes.
Sid Koop (49:22.526)
Yes.
Sid Koop (49:29.809)
Yeah.
Sid Koop (49:34.334)
And you have to have them experience it Rob right like I remember when I was working in Lethbridge We had about 60 volunteers, and they didn't want to take up another weekend And I had to be really careful in asking them for another weekend. You know what I mean to give and I just said hey Could you trust me this one time and if this doesn't help you better disable the kids in your small group next week I'm never asking you to come again, so we lived with that kind of expectation And I know like I'm asking point leaders and churches to leverage their trust
to make a big ask of their volunteers. And we wanna try to honor that trust. And I think we've been thoughtful about that. But the experience is shaping. Even for those volunteers to realize they're a part of a much bigger youth worker community is actually pretty significant for them. Yeah, that's great.
Rob Chartrand (50:15.856)
Yep, absolutely. And I mean, it's not even just the event, it's getting to the event, like the road trip. Like there's so much that happens in the vehicle and the conversations that happen with your leaders going there, coming back. So the journey is half of the value that's added to investing in something like this. So yeah, I just hope that leaders would do it. When I was in youth ministry, there were no events that I could take my
Sid Koop (50:23.202)
Yes.
Sid Koop (50:37.558)
Yeah it is.
Rob Chartrand (50:46.04)
my volunteers to so the weight was on me to not only to do the ministry but to come up with training all the time for my own volunteers and it's really hard to wear all those hats so if part of the pressure can be taken off of me and I can bring them to something and really just afterwards is just kind of walk through what would you see would you hear what's God doing and to come away from that experience with you know your buckets full I mean that's yeah totally worth it totally worth it.
Sid Koop (50:49.525)
Yes.
Yeah.
Sid Koop (50:57.494)
Really hard. Yeah.
Sid Koop (51:10.742)
Brilliant. Yeah, you nailed it.
Rob Chartrand (51:14.716)
Let's talk about the coalition, Sid. You have a degree leadership program for youth workers that you offer in partnership with several academic institutions. And it's a bit of a unique model for training youth workers. I mean, it's very much on the hands-on practical ministry side plus training as well, big on competencies, but why don't you talk about that for us? Why don't you share what's your approach to training workers with the coalition?
Sid Koop (51:45.078)
Yeah, so the coalition is a two year program, Rob, thanks for bringing that up. Um, you can do two years of your undergrad or your full two year graduate studies with us. And you know, really it's kind of a model based around the trades. We really think that the experience that someone has in their local ministry context is really important to their development as leaders and youth workers. So you're, you know, the primary classroom is your ministry environment.
So all of our students are in a ministry environment, whether they're there as an apprentice or already on staff in that local church or ministry location, camp, community ministry, you have to be in that space. Then second, you have to have a ministry mentor. So someone that's journeying with you and being really intentional about your character development and competency development. And we help give them some of the frameworks and tools to mentor.
that leader in that position that they're in. They have to have someone doing spiritual formation, journeying with them in terms of their spiritual formation and discipleship, so we know that, of course, that's key to the formation of a good leader. And then you're, of course, you're in community, so you're part of a local cohort that you're working with. Those cohorts meet in person eight times over two years as part of our classes, but they're also meeting monthly for our online leader lab.
that work through another, you know, one of your core competencies or character traits that you have to develop as a leader in that environment. And then finally, we're still committed to good academic rigor, Rob. And so we have over two years, eight one-week modulars, and we fly our professors in from all over North America to teach on the class. And not only do we get to, you know, not only do we have a real varied faculty,
but we're also then zooming in experts who are on the ground in those fields as well to contribute to the classroom, much like we do at Briar Crest and in our other institutions as well. And so you just get to hear a lot of different voices that are really focused on key topics. So Rob, my time in the residential school, that's probably the wrong language, my time at like Briar Crest specifically changed my life. And certainly,
Sid Koop (53:59.766)
there is a high need, especially for students coming out of high school, to be in that space, to be in that tight community, to do deep identity formation, to do great theological thoughtfulness. I think that's really, really key in that space. But I'm also excited about, you know, when it comes to real practitioner development, that to be able to be in a ministry context for a significant amount of time, so you feel the ebbs and flows and what takes place in that space, but you're mentored and you're still learning.
so that when you're in the classroom, you know, the questions we're answering are the questions you're asking because you've been dealing with it that week. So it's been really exciting, Rob, to be a part of this project, and we're thankful for it. We're thankful to partner with, like you said, all of these academic institutions that have been doing a wonderful job and to journey together in some kind of, maybe somewhat unique new ways of trying to do ministry preparation for the next generation. And what we like is especially,
you know, if you've been, you know, you finish your bachelor's, you've been in ministry for a number of years and now you'd like to kind of go to the next level of professional development and get your master's. We think this is a really fantastic space to be able to do it without having to move your family without, you know, with limited financial risk and, um, but also with really deep learning and networking at the same time. And you've mentioned it a couple of times, Rob, like that networking piece is part of what helps sustain people for the long haul and ministry. So we love to be a part of that.
Rob Chartrand (55:24.232)
Absolutely, yeah. Yeah, I mean, think resiliency studies, I mean, they will clearly, clearly articulate the importance of cohorts and networks and relationships that are gonna help sustain you for the long run in ministry. And if you don't have those, yeah, your chances of survival are pretty slim. So they're important. Now the,
Sid Koop (55:29.037)
OOF
Sid Koop (55:40.106)
Yeah. Nope. You need them.
Rob Chartrand (55:51.12)
The approach that you have, what I love about it is it's very practical, very hands-on approach. And I think what we see in theological institutions, one of the challenges is people can come out as, well, with big theological minds, but no real practical hands-on ministry, but you're saying you kind of want the best of both worlds. You want them to have that deep biblical understanding, the theological knowledge, but also some very,
Sid Koop (55:57.376)
Yes.
Rob Chartrand (56:20.008)
practical hands-on competencies to do ministry.
Sid Koop (56:22.998)
ministry experience. Yeah. Absolutely, Rob. Yeah, you nailed it exactly. And it has to be a both hand, right? And we know that each model tends to lean in certain directions. And that's, that's great, right? Like, it's not for everybody. But, but that, like competency practice piece is really significant. We would, we would say again, like, it's a deep dive into leadership development. And so
You know, for us, I think it's really saying we believe that the kind of leadership acumen that's required for healthy youth ministry today is probably in some ways maybe more than it's been, or at least that's what we're advocating for. And we think that this is a place that can do that. One of my concerns, Rob, is that I think there's lots of reasons why a youth pastor or a youth worker might move on from youth ministry. Lots of really good reasons, by the way.
but I hope they'll never move on from being passionate about seeing the next generation of Jesus. However, if you feel like it's that you've reached your leadership lid, if that's the reason for moving on, I think that's a strong man. I don't think that's a real ceiling. And because I think that you know there's an infinite amount of leadership growth and development that can take place within a youth ministry context and that's necessary for healthy youth ministry today. And so we want to help explore that with leaders as well.
Rob Chartrand (57:23.332)
Yeah.
Rob Chartrand (57:46.436)
Yeah, yeah, so good, so good. How's the enrollment this year for the coalition? How's it going for you guys post COVID?
Sid Koop (57:56.01)
Rob, we're shockingly blessed. And so we have 45 students enrolled right now in our program. We have a cohort in, we have two cohorts in Kelowna, cohort in Manitoba and one in New Brunswick. And we're looking at, so every year we launch new cohorts. Every year we launch in Kelowna. So every year we have a new cohort in Kelowna. That's been our model currently. And then depending on...
Rob Chartrand (57:59.684)
Yeah. Okay. Wow.
Sid Koop (58:21.822)
You know, people can either fly to Kelowna and be in the physical presence of our prof, or they can gather with other students physically and one of our facilitators and then stream the prof live into their location, depending on when we get a cohort together. So, we're right now looking at launching in Ontario in September. Once we get 10 to 12 students committed, we'll launch, and we're pretty close.
So my suspicion is that next year we'll launch a new cohort in Kelowna and another cohort in Ontario, and then we'll have our second year of cohort in Manitoba and New Brunswick as well. So we'll see. We don't like, again, Rob, we want to steward what we've been given. We don't want to move too fast. We don't want to build our kingdom. We want to contribute to the work of building, of being a part of the kingdom where Jesus is doing in partnership with so many other
Rob Chartrand (58:47.068)
Yeah.
Rob Chartrand (58:56.572)
Hmm.
Sid Koop (59:14.959)
people that are doing great work so that's what we're most excited about yeah and trying to be faithful there.
Rob Chartrand (59:21.445)
Hmm. That's great, Sid. Love what you guys are doing. You know, there seems to be a shortage of youth workers in the country. I mean, I, I get calls all the time at Briar Crest, people looking for youth pastors and the challenges we just can't keep up with the demand really right now. So any thoughts on why that might be? What do you what do you what are you seeing?
Sid Koop (59:40.718)
I know. Yeah.
Sid Koop (59:45.558)
Yeah, well, here's what I think, Rob. I think we have to be giving a vision for vocational ministry commitments to students earlier. So I think we've lost that passion. There's lots of reasons for that. You know what, like I look at my peers, I don't think we're encouraging, you know, the commitment to vocational ministry in our kids. Do you know what I mean? Like even when my son came to me and said, dad, I wanna be a youth pastor, I was like, ooh, you're like a...
Rob Chartrand (01:00:08.559)
Yeah. Yep.
Sid Koop (01:00:13.482)
You know, like I had a pause. So I think there's that. But I think like we don't value the calling like we need to. It's difficult in our kind of environment, you know, but financially, but when has that ever not been the issue? And so what I really am hopeful for Rob is that families and youth ministries would start talking about this calling.
Rob Chartrand (01:00:14.741)
Yeah.
Sid Koop (01:00:39.69)
to kids at a younger age and giving them opportunities to taste what it is to give their lives to ministry. So, you know, when you do missions trips, that's a pretty phenomenal experience. That's immersive. Student leadership in ministries is fantastic. I think camp is phenomenal for kids to have an immersive experience when it comes to doing good ministry work. And I think what we should be doing, we want to be careful. We don't want to be God's voice to kids.
Rob Chartrand (01:00:51.378)
Mm-hmm.
Sid Koop (01:01:08.362)
Like there's lots of people that should be called to go make as much money as they can and give it away. Like there's lots that should do that. But there's some that should consider giving their life to vocational ministry and we have to help them and gain a vision for that I think at an earlier age. Yeah.
Rob Chartrand (01:01:13.328)
Yeah.
Rob Chartrand (01:01:25.592)
Yeah, yeah. Well, I might not could go off on this for a half an hour. Okay, I, I think there's so many forces working against a young person to consider vocational ministry. I mean, first of all, I mean, I don't know, have you read Andrew roots book, the end of youth ministry?
Sid Koop (01:01:29.42)
Yep.
Sid Koop (01:01:37.43)
Dude. Yeah.
Sid Koop (01:01:43.946)
You know what? I haven't finished it. I've started it, but I haven't finished it yet.
Rob Chartrand (01:01:46.7)
Okay, yeah, I love he just zeros in on like the cultural factors that are there at play in the hearts and minds of parents, you know, and, you know, the rise of secularism. And even though we're Christian, as a Christian family, that secularism really plays on us. And so parents primarily are concerned about two significant factors for their young person. They're, they're
Sid Koop (01:01:57.312)
Yes.
Rob Chartrand (01:02:17.475)
Um.
Rob Chartrand (01:02:20.88)
Let me pause here for a second. What are you saying there, Sid?
Sid Koop (01:02:23.731)
I gotta go in five minutes, bro. I'm so sorry.
Rob Chartrand (01:02:26.412)
Okay, no, that's fine. That's fine. Let's, let's. Okay, let's back up. We'll cut what I just had to say there, and we won't have time. Which is okay, I'm gonna have it on another conversation with someone in two weeks. So okay, let's back up. We're gonna edit shorted youth workers. Any thoughts? Why not be done? Okay, let me let me queue in. And then I'm gonna say we're gonna hold that for another time. Okay. Here we go.
Sid Koop (01:02:28.138)
Yep, that's all I have to do.
Sid Koop (01:02:40.894)
I love it.
Sid Koop (01:02:51.126)
Perfect, I love that.
Rob Chartrand (01:02:55.448)
Wow, I mean, there's just so much I could say about that, Sid, but I know we don't have the time. So we're gonna have to make sure that we, we have that conversation in the future. Why is it that...
Sid Koop (01:02:57.863)
Yeah. We do. Yeah. And we have to keep that conversation going, Rob. Yeah.
Rob Chartrand (01:03:11.096)
Yeah, totally, totally. But we are, I think there's a problem in the distribution on the front end with so very few young people being called into ministry. And I think we need to return to conversations in our local churches about actually asking parents and their youth, would you actually prayerfully consider whether or not your young person is called into ministry? And I don't think we ask that question anymore.
Sid Koop (01:03:22.443)
Yes.
Sid Koop (01:03:36.61)
Yeah. Yes.
Rob Chartrand (01:03:39.644)
And it's not like it's a better calling than other vocations. I mean, we know we value all callings. It's not like all ministries don't matter. We believe in the priesthood of all believers, but there is something unique about the call to ministry. And I think we've largely lost that for a number of different reasons, but we won't get into them right now. We'll have a long form conversation about that sometime. But then on the back end, we have a challenge of getting workers into churches.
And then sometimes when they get into churches, they burn out and they fizzle out because of the resiliency problems and challenges. So there's so much in the pipeline, if I can use that word, but I lack for a better word, that it breaks down on several parts and it makes it really difficult to get young people into ministry in churches. So, so much we can talk about.
Sid Koop (01:04:07.672)
I know. Yeah. Yes.
Sid Koop (01:04:19.826)
Yeah. It does. But we can't but we're yeah and we're going to keep going Rob like we can't we're not quitting on it we know we've been called to this moment and what I think is really encouraging Rob is there's I think there's a new openness to collective conversations and
Rob Chartrand (01:04:47.524)
Yeah.
Sid Koop (01:04:48.914)
to help solve these issues. I really do think, Rob, that this generation of leaders coming behind us is not nearly as interested in silos as we were. And I'm, hey, I wanna be really clear. I'm all for denominations, actually. I'm a denomination guy. I get the value of it, of them and the supports and the equipping and all the kinds of things that can go with that. But I also love when people are committed together on mission.
that cross some of those lines as well. And I think we're seeing that. So I am hopeful that we'll be able to wrestle with these issues and continue to find ways forward.
Rob Chartrand (01:05:25.06)
Yeah, yeah. Well, I hope that parents and youth pastors and lead pastors in churches will challenge young people to prayerfully and faithfully consider whether or not God is calling them into ministry or where God is calling them in general, but in ministry in particular as well. Yeah. Well, hey, Sid, where can people go to learn more about your work?
Sid Koop (01:05:30.605)
Yeah.
Sid Koop (01:05:39.979)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, I agree.
Sid Koop (01:05:51.722)
Yeah, so our website is youthworker.community. That's probably one of the best places to find us. And you know, you can follow youthworker.community on socials as well, like Instagram, and we have Facebook pages, stuff like that. But the website is the best place to find us. We're kind of under construction there a little bit right now, which is fine. So you'll see it, but it's continuing to develop what's new. Are there any of us that don't say we're under construction when it comes to our digital platform? So that's fine.
But that's the best place to find us, Rob. And also our podcast, the Volunteer Youth Worker podcast, I think it's a great resource and tool for point leaders to share with their volunteers. You know, there's a new podcast comes out every week and we love that platform for helping continue to encourage and equip youth workers beyond just the conference moments. And so we think that's another great place for you to chuck with us.
Rob Chartrand (01:06:24.1)
Yes. Thank you.
Rob Chartrand (01:06:47.056)
Yeah, I love you guys putting that together. I had a chance to go on there once and do a talk about a church conflict and managing that. So yeah, kudos to you guys. Just so many great topics on there. And I've actually shared it. My daughter's youth pastor, I've shared it with her. I've shared it with some other youth workers as well. I'm saying, you gotta listen to this. This is so golden, so much good stuff there. So thanks for you guys. I mean, I know a weekly podcast is a big investment and you guys are investing, so I really appreciate it.
Sid Koop (01:07:01.926)
Cool.
Sid Koop (01:07:17.186)
Thanks so much, Rob. Sure appreciate it.
Rob Chartrand (01:07:17.54)
Hey, Sid, we'll have to get you back here on the podcast again in the future. Bless you, man. Love what you do. Thanks for sharing your time with our listeners today.
Sid Koop (01:07:27.402)
My pleasure. Thanks so much, Rob. Bless you, bro. Thank you.
Rob Chartrand (01:07:29.837)
Okay, we'll talk to you soon.
Sid Koop (01:07:34.382)
Clue.
Rob Chartrand (01:07:37.104)
Alright, I couldn't read it.